I have created this thread due to there isnt a Master thread that i could find to discuss ALL THINGS Shadow Lab. There are a few different ones pertaining…slots, and why their shadow isnt being challenged. This thread is for all topics to be in one general location.
- Why can you scroll over on the bounty page and highlight the Game tags of the person you beat, but you cant click on it to see the match out come like you can when you have a bounty? Energy level left, Time remaining, ect… (It would be nice to see the highest combo # and combo breakers like in survival per bounty/win data as well.
- Can we get a Game tag search bar? Need a quicker way to search game tags…like when you have a bounty and you want to find that person quickly to challenge there shadow besides a bounty… you have to find them in the leader boards or you have to write down there GT and search in friends…add friend…then find in challenge friends.
- We want more Shadow slots… 4 would be great…5 would be better
- We need to be able to choose our color in Shadow customization.
- Id like to learn more details as to how to build my shadow brain better and what " Combo variety actually means specifically and other brain data specific details so we know exactly what we need to do to build out brains to be better…most every ones shadow has high loss records. If we knew exactly how to manage the details…i think we could get them better than they are now.
Everyone feel free to add your ideas and concerns to this thread. Thank you
@rukizzel @TheKeits @xMasterStonex @Marbledecker @Fwufikins @TempusChaoti
1 Like
6… Why does the Ladder mode have to be SURVIVAL??? Why cant it just be a regular straight up fight ladder? Normal energy levels? When you loose a survival shadow match…does that give the opponents Shadow a victory? If so isn’t that kind of unfair being you only have half your energy in some matches?
We desperately need a CLASSIC LADDER mode… no energy level constraints. Not just in Shadow Lab either… regular CPU mode needs this as well along side Survival.
3 Likes
Tune up the AI just a bit more.
maybe get rid of it, and just run it in the background.
Great idea! I think they could be a bit more competitive somehow
I’ve definitely thought about all of the points in the OP before. I’m not sure that a lot of these things can be addressed until all of the shadows in the roster arrive. Eventually once they do, I agree that it would be nice if Shadow AI and classic ladder could intersect somehow. I would like to see the ability to call Shadow AI into Practice Mode as well. Gamertag search would be amazing, and that seems less predicated on a complete shadow roster.
More detail on the inner workings of a shadow brain would be pretty awesome. I touched on this in the survey, but there are some things about Shadows as they exist that could be worked on. They do a lot better of a job replicating human opponents than regular AI, which is unique and amazing and I definitely don’t intend to take anything away from that. But sometimes, they act a little weird (which quite honestly is to be expected; it’s rare to break new ground without a few bogies in the woodpile).
For instance, Maya shadows still have no idea how to act once they lose both daggers and their opponents are camping on/in front of them. I’ve won against Maya shadows this way more than once, watching them shuffle back and forth and backdash to oblivion.
Our shadows are great at learning our setups and tendencies, but sometimes I think they lack a little context as I’ve seen my shadows make attempts at setups in situations that are completely inappropriate for those particular setups. Shadows also tend to be a little reckless in terms of meter management; almost as though they’ve learned to burn meter after a particular set of inputs rather than burning meter in regards to risk management or gaining advantage when you’re on the 1st lifebar and the opponent is on the second (I could be off base with my diagnosis, of course).
I remember a bit of text in the S2 forums when Shadows launched about the Shadow data somehow being pruned when saved, trying to eliminate obviously bad stuff and keeping obviously good stuff. I understand that there’s no way for that to be 100% effective, but I will say that it takes a while for me to coax my shadow to un-learn a goofy mistake. For instance, I saved a match for my Wulf shadow which was mostly good, but had one really goofy input error in it which was then replicated by my shadow for weeks on end.
All this having been said, I am fully aware that creating a competent shadow is a 2 way street, so I’d like to be doing my part as much as I’d like the AI to be doing its part. If we were armed with some expanded info, we’d have better tools to make sure we’re meeting the AI halfway… saving the right stuff, setting up the right scenarios.
2 Likes
Get rid of the shadow lab…no one uses it any way…
Speak for yourself homie.
6 Likes
I just really want them to have a better sense of context. I don’t spend meter on dead opponents - really wish my shadow would stop doing that. Yes, I do that combo and then go into shadow. It is a thing. It is not a thing on an opponent that is already dead.
And for the love of pudding, would it kill my shadows to pop instinct? I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve not used instinct in a lost match since launch, and yet my Sadira shadow routinely dies without having ever used it. Yes, I realize that I don’t necessarily pop instinct every fight, but I really do pop it pretty much every time I get it, to include matches where I’m winning by a hefty amount. I know some of those games are saved as well. They might not be in the majority (most players in ranked don’t manage to give my Sadira instinct), but they are definitely there and I wish my shadow would use that knowledge. The only shadow I’ve seen that seems to properly use instinct is Jago, and that’s just for breaker->instinct->life regen. On basically every other character, most shadows seem to be quite inept at using one of the game’s most powerful mechanics. For a system that does so well mimicking human play, it just always feels like a huge miss to me.
And goodness gracious, it’s still insane the way 85% of shadows psychic break juggles. Really feel like there needs to be a differentiation between standard manual break attempts and true air break guesses (ala Sadira’s throw) - I never break juggles as a rule, but my shadow throws out aerial breakers like there’s no tomorrow.
2 Likes
I suspect that the “Instinct Usage” metric is counting matches where we don’t reach Instinct against our overall Instinct Usage percentage. Which is, of course, not ideal. I’m of the opinion that this particular percentage shouldn’t drop unless we DO reach instinct, but choose not to use it (as a Hisako main, that’s pretty damned rare, and I know you feel me on that).
I feel like that the Instinct Usage is a little weird. I sometimes found my TJ Combo Shadow, (When I had one) Popping instinct at the wrongest of times. Like 1% health into Instinct. I guess it just might be how you use the instinct according to a combo or if you use it at all?
Absolutely not!!! Your crazy… shadows is the best mode in the game and its not even complete yet!!!
Ah, I like this strategy. The best use of development money for a mode that supposedly nobody uses is to simply kill it off entirely, spending MORE money to remove it from the game and telling your team of engineers that the last 8 months of their lives have been wasted. It’s game development 101, really.
5 Likes
I would like a feature to clear bounties from my bounty list (without fighting them). I’m getting so many lately that I can’t fight them all.
Also if you don’t play the game for a while or don’t check your bounties for a while a fair few can accumulate, it would be nice to be able to clear them and start fresh.
Also I would like a list of devs and streamers shadows and maybe even pros shadows, along with a search feature.
Maybe even a most popular shadows of the week or something of that sort too.
Can we move the save shadow option to the bottom? I hate trying to rematch but I forget to click down.
2 Likes
Happens to me too lol it’s not too big a deal to me, but I’d be in favor of this for sure.
Can we remove the delete shadow from the select (?) button! I cannot count how many times the game asked me “delete shadow?” only because the TE2 button accidentally grazed something… a shortcut that is more dangerous than helpful imho…
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Yeah, I agree with this. I would have deleted my shadows so many times if I wasn’t paying attention.
Your ideas are solid. I’ve been wondering what to do with the Shadow Points I’ve accrued from just fighting (around 7k), wish there was something I could do with them, like XBL Avatar accessories or Shadow skins or more Shadow slots.
Definitely a need for a search option, it can be terribly annoying with each page loading up search results so just letting us find someone by Gamertag is seriously helpful in keeping someone interested in the mode. The ladder suggestion I completely agree with, even though I’ve rarely used it myself. Hardly fair if you reach someone with just Danger level health and they beat you with a full bar.
@Marbledecker Its not just Maya with the daggers, I’ve played several Shadows that just walk backwards when I chuck a grenade with Orchid. Distance chucked is irrelevant, they’ll still walk backwards and only stop once it explodes. It favors me a lot because they’re just walking back and I can open up a combo with the slide. The only way to stop a Shadow doing something you don’t want is to start all over again and fight each character through search and teach it the intricacies of each match. My Wulf is prone to very bad habits I had early on when I started playing, still tries to Double/Triple Ultra whenever it can even though I’ve spent several matches recording my preferred 7-hit Ultra into Ender (I like how the Ultra sounds when I end it there).
Yea happens to mine too, I was very frequent with the opener into Shadow anything with Wulf and now my Shadow thinks its always a good time to throw it out regardless of health. sigh. Guess I’ll go delete it and have it learn everything all over again.
Haven’t had this problem much, but then I used to pop it every match (The benefits of getting 2 instinct bars in a match instead of one made me try to get both any chance possible). It may just be lack of MU knowledge/playtime in the Shadow? Depends on whether you just want them to use it or use it productively at the best time.
Definitely need this. Some bounties I just don’t want to fight. Like a certain someone’s Maya that challenges me, maybe he doesn’t play like that, but his Shadow will do 3-4 Mantis grabs in a row. The only option I had when done with the right timing was to backdash and even that only worked 2/3 times.
I don’t remember right now, but is there an option to back out of recording after you’ve reached the brain screen? you can do it in Ranked and Exhibition but you couldn’t in Shadow Lab (as far as I can tell). Just adding that would help.