Aganos Tweaks

That would certainly be interesting, but it definitely wouldn’t work for KI. I’d hate to be the little guy in that scenario. can you imagine what it would be like watching Fei Long get creamed by Hugo because of something like that… :stuck_out_tongue:

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Give him the no throw property, IG is already worried that they might have made him broken in S3 so might as well go all the way and let Aganos be S+ Tier for a few weeks.

Give him another low attack, please.

There are 3 sizes in KI so it’s feasible. There’s Medium size, Beast Size, and Hulk Size. Aganos and Hisako are the largest and smallest of those body sizes. Riptor and SabreWulf are both much heavier than they look so clearly they are Beast sized, so they appear more deceptive if they were to introduce a Weight mechanic.

I personally feel KI can have alittle bit of that HP differentials that is prevalent in the Street Fighter series. Maybe not as extreme as 950HP to 2020HP like in SF 3rd Strike; Akuma and Buffed Q respectively. However something similar like Jago, Orchid, Maya, and Sabrewulf can have 1000HP while Thunder, TJ, and Tusk can have 1250 HP, and Aganos can have 1650 HP. Glacius can have 1100 HP but during Instinct he has Armor and 1600HP. A system like that sounds like work, but it would make things interesting, while opening up new Instinct/Combo/Mechanics ideas, not to mention it would decrease the frequency of hard adjustments these characters tend to go through.

Same thing if Fire Balls were breakable by strength, then characters like Spinal, Maya, Kan-Ra, Riptor wouldn’t be adjusted as much, and characters like Jago and Orchid wont have such retarded Instincts swings.

If Aganos took slightly longer to Die than other characters then that would be a very powerful buff that doesn’t make him OP in terms of Offense. If they want to Balance it then make Shadow moves ignore Armor to encourage blocking with him. Shadow Moves almost ignore armor anyway considering you’re so slow + extra slothiness while Armor is breaking, you can’t even block out of them most of the time; and when you do get hit by a shadow move and then block the final hit it kinda feels cheap, but maybe that’s just me.

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Regarding your health numbers, I’m not good at math, so if you could put those into percentage terms, I’d appreciate it (with the current standard of health being 100%) as it would help me understand better what you’re talking about.

I personally wish projectiles were breakable, but how would that work exactly? It can’t cause the opponent to go flying away from you like a normal combo-break because that would simply be weird and not really make sense. Maybe if it just nullified the projectile itself, like with Aganos finger-flick (but it comes naturally to him) - the opponent doesn’t damage you or gain shadow meter in the process. Of course, that could be too easy - people would just press MP+MK against every projectile, making projectiles obsolete. So maybe if we used up a resource? Perhaps using a shadow counter to counter projectiles? Can we technically already do that (although in my experience it doesn’t really do anything except ignore the 1 projectile)? Maybe if you could fully shadow-counter a projectile, attack and all… You could open up your opponent or mess up entirely if the character you chose has a cruddy shadow-counter or if your opponent does another attack or throws out another projectile or the distance could simply be too great and you whiff in the process. I’m just throwin’ ideas out there - what do you guys think about any of the above?

Giving Aganos more health is crazy. I’ve seen the kind of damage he can do with the life he has in the proper hands - and trust me, he doesn’t need it. Speaking of which, I don’t like the idea of changing up damage totals and life totals like in the SF series. It’s 1 of the things in that series I always considered a crutch, especially as a Dhalsim charactter - he was slow AND weak compared to other characters, so you had to play a really good zoning game with him as well as get good reads or you’d get crushed in the process. Meanwhile, Zangief is merrily spinning in circles and back-handing enemies left and right while he drives them head-1st into the cement. So, no, I do not agree with this idea. Not at all.

The HP totals in SF is just a technique Capcom uses to justify why a character has easier set-ups, or more damaging combos than another. Whereas Zangief has pretty hard high level set-ups but amazing health while Akuma is a Shoto on steroids, very easy to play and combo with but has the lowest health in the game.

Aganos is similar to Zangief/Hugo when it comes to damage because their normals have great reach, they are very super slow with super slow walk speeds, and in Aganos’s case has almost NO dash while Zangief has a pretty alright forward dash. Instead of stacking more moves into a character you can use secondary techniques to aid them against easier played characters. Have you played against a Great Sabrewulf as Aganos? It’s almost 7-3 lol. You can just cr.medium kick Aganos all day and react to shadow ruin with a grab or any ruin. You can dash grab, every time and react to his floaty jump with an eclipse instead 100% of the time. S.Jump Slash strips armor like a magic trick, and you as a Sabrewulf can deal just as much Damage as Aganos but far easier. Instead of giving Aganos more moves or changing the properties of these moves, him having increased health would be just as good or better than giving him some extra tool when he’s actually fine Offensively.

As for Projectiles, Iron Galaxy has done things with Projectiles that NO ONE has ever done. Spinal and Maya alone change the projectile game, forget about Kan-Ra and Riptor. However it’s interesting that for Riptor and Kan-Ra someone of their projectiles are breakable, but Maya’s isn’t and Spinals doesn’t linker so it “doesn’t count”. You can tell what strength both of those character’s projectiles are by looking at them too. So breaking them is no real problem if they were breakable at any range (Spinals is unbreakable no matter what). Jago’s are the only Balls that are hard to catch because they are so close together and swing so slow with trajectories that are barely noticeable in the heat of the moment.

For the record my Aganos is pretty fantastic, if I had more training by a top Pro or just found the meaning of life on my own with Aganos I can probably win tourneys. Aganos set-ups and playstyle just Sings to me. However that’s player skill, not character skill. Even Hugo who takes away 33% of your health with his SPD and 55% with his Gigas Breaker has great Health plus in 3rd Strike you can buff his defense with his Taunts yet if your skill as a player isn’t up there then you will lose very very fast. Same applies to Aganos, very good set-ups, no such thing as easy damage, and very intimidating but easy to kill character. Giving him more health would be more balanced than giving him new moves, or making him invincible/easier to play.

It’s rare that my Aganos loses to a Sabrewulf. Very rare. Oh, and Maya’s daggers? They ARE breakable - they just have to be used up close, and in mid-combo.

Have you had the opportunity to fight my golem? Many people on here seem to think it’s pretty good. I, for 1, would certainly like to see yours. :slight_smile:

I know they are breakable up close, but have you ever been killed by 6 daggers thrown at you back to back from Max screen? I feel like that win was cheap asf.

I don’t think I’ve faced your golem before, I mean I have some youtube vids of my golem if you wanna see.

Sure, that’d be nice, I think - I’d like to see those clips.

As for the 6 dagger juggle, it can be annoying, but it doesn’t do all that much damage compared to a normal combo, so I’m not too worried about it. Besides, you can block it. :wink:

It actually used to be possible to break projectiles at the start of the game - there were certain manual strings involving them that I used to routinely break in S1. MS/DH changed that a bit later on though. So it’s not an entirely impossible idea, but I also kind of doubt that they’d change it again.

Using health to balance characters is interesting. I personally think of it as a kind of poor-man’s way to force balance certain characters or movesets. Seth gets to have a ridiculous arsenal of moves and options because he’s made of glass, or Zangeif gets a billion health so that he can just walk into normals all day until he gets close enough to use an SPD. It certainly has its place in fighters (SF actually uses it to good effect I think), but I personally prefer characters to just BE balanced around their movesets. ARIA is an interesting test case of a different health character in KI (across her individual bodies), and while it’s interesting, I think I’d like that “feature” to remain unique to her.

It’s overall a philosophical preference however, and so far MS/DH/IG have preferred to balance characters around damage output, breakability, etc, than to do it with variant health numbers (even ARIA has two full health bars worth of life, after all). I personally like this approach, and they seem to as well.

I like this particular argument against the changes to health. It should be unique to her, IMO.

For the record I also think Taunts should give Bonuses. For example:

Taunt- Riptor’s Flame is bigger for ONE burst. So no full Instinct HP chain, just the opening burst is powered up.

Taunt- Jago’s Shadow Wind Kick returns to it’s Season 1 distance once.

Taunt- Thunder gains Armor on Horn Breaker for the Round.

Taunt- Sabrewulf’s Howl staggers the Player only Once per Game. He can do it again once you begin the 3rd round for instance in a 2 outta 3.

Taunt- For every Taunt Sadira pulls off she gets one Triple Jump and it stacks to 4x.

etc.

This should never be allowed to happen; not with taunts anyways… Also, what does any of that have to do with Aganos’ tweaks? Please try to stay on topic. :wink:

Idk why but your comment came off type annoying.

Since you asked for it If Aganos were to recieve a tweak like this, his taunt buff would give one of his walls and extra Hit point, and it would give him a 18.7% increase to his hit stun on Medium, and Heavy normals.

That’s a fairly complicated set of buffs and such to have newer player remember on the fly for newer characters. I’m not 100% opposed to taunt buffs (Q’s from SFIII was actually pretty cool), but I don’t think it should be retroactively added to anyone. KI’s taunts can also be canceled, so there’s that to consider.

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I mean the full Taunt must be completed for the buff to activate. However I’ve been playing fighting games for 22yrs so my perspective is definitely colored by adept mentality of the genre. I tend to completely forget about New Players. I wish they thought about new players in Primal Rage, so I shouldn’t adopt a mentality where I ignore new minds to fighting games.

Without help and easy access for new players it would literally take Years for someone to master a fighting game. Alot of my inspirations come from 3rd strike because that game changed my life on fighting games, I mean I mastered Primal Rage and Bloody Roar, was proficient at Killer Instinct and dabbled in SF2:Turbo II, and MKII/MKIII. I even played the hell out of King of the Monsters for SNES and Neo-Geo. I can go on, but that crap was hard to learn on your own. KI today is amazing in how it helps players soooo much. It’s immaculate and magnanimous. My buffs are too Hi-tech for a game that straddles the line of competitive and accessible because Lord knows SFIII was anything but accessible.

I started playing Aganos again and remembered why he was and will always be my favorite character. managing chunks/walls is more fun than ever and I feel smart for doing it.

Remember kids, eat your vegitables… or a giant rock man will punch you through a wall.
no joke.

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