The patch has been out less than a week. Can we just give adaptation a shot before we lose our minds?
I’m glad someone else said it…
@truecarnage08 - no one is saying that Glacius now has the exact equivalent of a Jago DP. What he has now is an unstuffable reversal which hits as hard as Jago’s DP. Heavy puddle will still be jumpable, safe jumpable, and susceptible to backdashes and/or blocking.
Here’s the thing though - the move will still be pretty good. The ability to block or cross up Jago’s DP does not make it bad, and the ability to safe jump or cross up Glacius’ puddle punch won’t make it bad. If there’s anything Thunder’s most recent incarnation should have shown people, it’s that having an invincible reversal isn’t necessarily always about throwing it out. By simply existing, an unstuffable reversal changes the way you handle a character on knockdown. And those changes are things that you as a defender can exploit.
People hate to get hit by damaging reversals. It’s annoying, it hurts, and you saltily think “he just went for it.” For that reason, good players tend to think of ways to avoid or otherwise invalidate those tools. Your reversal is slow enough to be safe jumped? Fine, I’ll safe jump it! Your reversal can be neutral jumped? Great, I’ll neutral jump it! Simply having an invincible reversal funnels offense down predictable paths, and it’s as true as ever it was that predictability can be punished in fighting games.
If you know the opponent is afraid of your reversal, then be prepared to just block it out, and react with a hard punish if he does something like neutral jump on your wakeup. If he’s sitting there waiting to block the puddle, throw him. If he safe jumps you, block and see where it goes. If he isn’t wary of your reversal, make him wary of it and DP him in the face for trying to meaty whatever you.
Having a true reversal doesn’t mean being knocked down won’t suck as Glacius. Being knocked down always sucks, and in this game it really sucks. Having a DP isn’t a magic blanket that will solve all your defensive woes. But it is a meaningful asset that will change the way your opponents approach you on knockdown, and that utility is not nothing. I play mostly characters with no form of universal “get off me” tool, and I can tell you that having one is absolutely a useful thing. Just give it some time and see how you like it; more importantly, take the time to see how you can leverage its new utility.
i got stuffed by orchids kick overhead yesterday -_- either i was too slow (which i doubt because i woke up with it) or just a weird bug happened i’ll see if it changed. as for comparing it to jago i actually misread what they said “The heavy version, in particular, will be very reliable anti air at a distance he normally couldn’t reach, and is a much more reliable reversal that hits as hard as a heavy Jago DP!)” I thought they said it has the same properties or something like that (i had a huge headache last night) as for it being reliable… not as an anti air a reversal yes but an anti air no it’s not. the heavy version still has 1 huge weakness and that it is susceptible to neutral jumps. backdashing is not the best option against glacius. Jago and Fulgore both actually get caught by it along with a couple of other characters. I think cinder’s one of the few who gets away with it.
How is a fully invulnerable move not a good AA?
Something @Sajam said that is very accurate is that you cannot just look at the nerfs of your character but at the roster as a whole. If you say, well my character lost this and this, now it’s unfair… you’re not the only one. Jago now has a damage nerf to his regular and shadow dp both at -10% and -27%. Not to mention he can also be thrown for the first initial frame so of his Shadow Windkick. All together every top character was knocked down a peg.
I don’t main Glacius or play him, but his changes aren’t even substantial nerfs, they are actually quite small. You may not be able to open combos using his Puddle Punch like before, but you have a far more reliable Heavy Puddle Punch that does about the same damage as Jago’s dp.
Could be worse though. A chunk of your potential damage could’ve been taken away from you. Or you know… you could be Kan-Ra.
“Does not work in all situations” does not mean “not good or reliable”. Eclipse is a fantastic AA, but it also loses to neutral jumps. Know your moves’ spacings and utilities and use them accordingly. If the jump isn’t super deep (which would make puddle punch whiff or come out wrong side), puddle punch is a fine anti-air.
Never thought I’d see the day people would complain that their character gained an invincible reversal…
I don’t main Glacius (But I do play him sometimes) and I actually like the change to the heavy puddle punch and I never even knew medium was an opener before lol maybe I should have been using that for all those people I could PP everytime I got knocked down for a free combo
Probably just a way to reduce glacius’ combo potential. How many characters could get a grounded combo after their reversal again?
Nobody is complaining about getting an invincible reversal. Heavy PP never opened a combo from the beginning. They’re complaining about a limitation of their combo options from a range that their character is consistently forced to fight at in most MUs, despite everyone telling them he’s supposedly designed to fight as a zoner with his surprisingly weak zoning options.
Edit: Check that, three. Also, should we start talking about reversal into recapture while we’re at it?
This has already happened, when his damage was nerfed across the board. It has also happened by default now that light PP is the only one that opens a combo, scaling his damage down.
Besides, Jago gets a crap ton of meter and health gain. Did he really need all that damage?
He needs more buffs, better zoning to deal with zoners. Plus frames on his shadow moves and the return of his full-screen Shadow Windkick.
I agree that in light of Aganos’ shadow ruin and shadow windkick being throw vulnerable, he could possibly use the benefit of some extended range on it. Aria’s shadow projectile invulnerable attack (forget name) also has quite the range, so why not, right?
Three? who? I don’t count recapture’s because you’re still juggling someone.
Glacius light PP, Hisako catch counter, and Kim Wu dragon counter.
Reversal into recapture is a hair’s difference, the end result is still a grounded combo.
Well recapture can happen at any point in time or not at all. So I don’t count it.
Hisako and Kim’s counters are not reversals (ie, they do not beat all options besides block or avoid). They can be used in some reversal situations but they are a far cry from a true reversal.
If you want reversals that lead to combos in general (ie, air combos, recaptures, etc), then TJ, Cinder, Wulf (for 2 bars), Riptor (for 2 bars) and others are on the list.
No…hisako’s counter is a reversal. A counter is a reversal…Kim’s can be if she already has a dragon available. It’s like saying Juri’s counter in SF isn’t a reversal…even though it is.
I don’t count moves that lose to meaty throw. Strike invulnerable only, or throw invulnerable only, are not “true” reversals to me (not to say that you can’t or shouldn’t use them sometimes, of course).
Hisako’s parry also loses to high/low mixups so it’s even less reliable.