The patch has been out less than a week. Can we just give adaptation a shot before we lose our minds?
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Iām glad someone else said itā¦ 
@truecarnage08 - no one is saying that Glacius now has the exact equivalent of a Jago DP. What he has now is an unstuffable reversal which hits as hard as Jagoās DP. Heavy puddle will still be jumpable, safe jumpable, and susceptible to backdashes and/or blocking.
Hereās the thing though - the move will still be pretty good. The ability to block or cross up Jagoās DP does not make it bad, and the ability to safe jump or cross up Glaciusā puddle punch wonāt make it bad. If thereās anything Thunderās most recent incarnation should have shown people, itās that having an invincible reversal isnāt necessarily always about throwing it out. By simply existing, an unstuffable reversal changes the way you handle a character on knockdown. And those changes are things that you as a defender can exploit.
People hate to get hit by damaging reversals. Itās annoying, it hurts, and you saltily think āhe just went for it.ā For that reason, good players tend to think of ways to avoid or otherwise invalidate those tools. Your reversal is slow enough to be safe jumped? Fine, Iāll safe jump it! Your reversal can be neutral jumped? Great, Iāll neutral jump it! Simply having an invincible reversal funnels offense down predictable paths, and itās as true as ever it was that predictability can be punished in fighting games.
If you know the opponent is afraid of your reversal, then be prepared to just block it out, and react with a hard punish if he does something like neutral jump on your wakeup. If heās sitting there waiting to block the puddle, throw him. If he safe jumps you, block and see where it goes. If he isnāt wary of your reversal, make him wary of it and DP him in the face for trying to meaty whatever you.
Having a true reversal doesnāt mean being knocked down wonāt suck as Glacius. Being knocked down always sucks, and in this game it really sucks. Having a DP isnāt a magic blanket that will solve all your defensive woes. But it is a meaningful asset that will change the way your opponents approach you on knockdown, and that utility is not nothing. I play mostly characters with no form of universal āget off meā tool, and I can tell you that having one is absolutely a useful thing. Just give it some time and see how you like it; more importantly, take the time to see how you can leverage its new utility.
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i got stuffed by orchids kick overhead yesterday -_- either i was too slow (which i doubt because i woke up with it) or just a weird bug happened iāll see if it changed. as for comparing it to jago i actually misread what they said āThe heavy version, in particular, will be very reliable anti air at a distance he normally couldnāt reach, and is a much more reliable reversal that hits as hard as a heavy Jago DP!)ā I thought they said it has the same properties or something like that (i had a huge headache last night) as for it being reliableā¦ not as an anti air a reversal yes but an anti air no itās not. the heavy version still has 1 huge weakness and that it is susceptible to neutral jumps. backdashing is not the best option against glacius. Jago and Fulgore both actually get caught by it along with a couple of other characters. I think cinderās one of the few who gets away with it.
How is a fully invulnerable move not a good AA?
Something @Sajam said that is very accurate is that you cannot just look at the nerfs of your character but at the roster as a whole. If you say, well my character lost this and this, now itās unfairā¦ youāre not the only one. Jago now has a damage nerf to his regular and shadow dp both at -10% and -27%. Not to mention he can also be thrown for the first initial frame so of his Shadow Windkick. All together every top character was knocked down a peg.
I donāt main Glacius or play him, but his changes arenāt even substantial nerfs, they are actually quite small. You may not be able to open combos using his Puddle Punch like before, but you have a far more reliable Heavy Puddle Punch that does about the same damage as Jagoās dp.
Could be worse though. A chunk of your potential damage couldāve been taken away from you. Or you knowā¦ you could be Kan-Ra.
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āDoes not work in all situationsā does not mean ānot good or reliableā. Eclipse is a fantastic AA, but it also loses to neutral jumps. Know your movesā spacings and utilities and use them accordingly. If the jump isnāt super deep (which would make puddle punch whiff or come out wrong side), puddle punch is a fine anti-air.
Never thought Iād see the day people would complain that their character gained an invincible reversalā¦
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I donāt main Glacius (But I do play him sometimes) and I actually like the change to the heavy puddle punch and I never even knew medium was an opener before lol maybe I should have been using that for all those people I could PP everytime I got knocked down for a free combo
Probably just a way to reduce glaciusā combo potential. How many characters could get a grounded combo after their reversal again?
Nobody is complaining about getting an invincible reversal. Heavy PP never opened a combo from the beginning. Theyāre complaining about a limitation of their combo options from a range that their character is consistently forced to fight at in most MUs, despite everyone telling them heās supposedly designed to fight as a zoner with his surprisingly weak zoning options.
Now? Two.
Edit: Check that, three. Also, should we start talking about reversal into recapture while weāre at it?
This has already happened, when his damage was nerfed across the board. It has also happened by default now that light PP is the only one that opens a combo, scaling his damage down.
Besides, Jago gets a crap ton of meter and health gain. Did he really need all that damage?
He needs more buffs, better zoning to deal with zoners. Plus frames on his shadow moves and the return of his full-screen Shadow Windkick.
I agree that in light of Aganosā shadow ruin and shadow windkick being throw vulnerable, he could possibly use the benefit of some extended range on it. Ariaās shadow projectile invulnerable attack (forget name) also has quite the range, so why not, right?
Three? who? I donāt count recaptureās because youāre still juggling someone.
Glacius light PP, Hisako catch counter, and Kim Wu dragon counter.
Reversal into recapture is a hairās difference, the end result is still a grounded combo.
Well recapture can happen at any point in time or not at all. So I donāt count it.
Hisako and Kimās counters are not reversals (ie, they do not beat all options besides block or avoid). They can be used in some reversal situations but they are a far cry from a true reversal.
If you want reversals that lead to combos in general (ie, air combos, recaptures, etc), then TJ, Cinder, Wulf (for 2 bars), Riptor (for 2 bars) and others are on the list.
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Noā¦hisakoās counter is a reversal. A counter is a reversalā¦Kimās can be if she already has a dragon available. Itās like saying Juriās counter in SF isnāt a reversalā¦even though it is.
I donāt count moves that lose to meaty throw. Strike invulnerable only, or throw invulnerable only, are not ātrueā reversals to me (not to say that you canāt or shouldnāt use them sometimes, of course).
Hisakoās parry also loses to high/low mixups so itās even less reliable.