Huh. Had never heard of that OS. Welp, Storm179 has a new trick on defense now.
But yeah, that is kinda jank.
With regards to opener->manual being mash breakable (for the situations where it is, because again, itâs certainly not all of them), yes, I would agree that should probably not be the case. The offense still has options to punish this (including resets, opener->linker/delayed linker, or opener->delayed AD), but I tend to agree that a manual that cannot generate a timing lockout is being unfairly gimped.
Manuals are always lockout-able during startup. Even in opener -> manual cases. The window is small because it doesnât start until the manualâs startup beings, but it exists. If it wasnât possible, then this video wouldnât exist. For manual situations after the opener, you can be locked out at times outside the manual startup, so itâs a little easier.
If you have a 33% chance to guess break Wulf (I actually think, counting timing lockouts, this number is less than 33% on a blind guess, but ok), and you save 30% damage by being right on the guess (again, a simplified number because the odds of you taking damage after the combo completes is still high, assumes no meter from Wulf, etc), then you have to do a LOT of damage during zoning when you do land your correct guess for the damage discrepancy to be worth it. If you are making a 1/3 guess for 30% life, then on your successes you have to do considerably more than 30% damage in return, on average, for that guess to be +EV. Even in the Gargos case, I imagine itâs not true.
Thank you. The assertion otherwise sounded incorrect to me, but without being able to lab it myself I didnât want to make a definitive statement. Didnât want to be utterly wrong on a definitive statement about something I hadnât tested myself *coughwallsplatthrowtechOScough *
For the record, the reason it has to exist that way is because the lockout system only works when breakable windows are present, or have been present in the past.
Consider just doing opener and then dropping the combo. Your opponent can mash breaker all he wants, but he will never get locked out. Why? Because the combo system has never been active at any point.
The combo system only becomes active when a manual is attempted. The first startup frame is when that happens.
Later in a combo, though, you can (and often do) lock out at different parts. For example, you can lock out after a linker ends, but before a manual is attempted, because the combo system has been activated and every frame, the game is checking combo states.
The only way to âfixâ this, if you think itâs a problem, is to turn on lockout states every single time you enter hit stun, which was your original suggestion. The problems with this are pretty severe, though, I think. It greatly impacts feel, and it creates a lot of unintentional lockouts. Take this case for instance; you are trying to activate instinct or tech a throw, but you instead get hit by a normal 1 frame earlier. This turns into an immediate lockout before an opener has even occurred. It would also require a wholesale rewrite of the combo system code to allow lockouts when no acceptable breaker window exists, so it doesnât make sense to do such a serious change to the game when the benefits arenât clear.
After a light opener, a light, medium*, or a throw will all whiff against s.HK because of the step back.
Wulf has good setups where he can fake a tick throw and do s.HK to make the âtechâ whiff. Against skilled opponent itâs a high-risk, high-reward trick since you are choosing to drop a combo on the assumption they are going to YOLO break. But against mashers? Itâs AHAHAHAHAHAHA GET BODIED BRUH AHAHAHAHA
*tested with Jago and Wulf, who each have pretty good mediums. And wulf has a good throw range
s.HK is kinda like a âmini-ankle slicerâ as far as the step back will make alot of counter-pokes whiff and get counter hitâd
I still think counter breakers are worthless in tight situations.
Tight framed manuals, or even juggle manuals are often missed due to delay or issue with the mechanics understanding that I cannot beat my âmashingâ opponent to a counter breaker during mid-juggle.
If those counters would actually work in situations where they are difficult to be successful, than I would have no problem in the combo mechanics.
Iâm starting to use that move more often (and I think itâs -2). But I usually use it in a different way. Still very nice stuff, thanks for sharing! =)
The S3 change for air combos makes it so that you donât have to bet on a counter breaker to get lockouts against mashers. While counter breaking is harder, I think overall itâs probably a good change for juggle characters. The only exception being moves with massive hit stun (tremor, Cinder recap), since those moves are easy to break but now more difficult to counter break. If you rely on those moves a lot, and use the juggle potential of those characters less in other ways, I imagine itâs more frustrating.
That may be true, but it feels odd. Maybe I just havenât adjusted, but when I juggle, I usually use TJ. Problem is anytime I see the guy breaking mediums every time, I condition them and attempt to counter, but often get lockout and punished. It could be a connection issue as yesterday I noticed that someone who mashes light on wakeup had priority over Tuskâs charged Spine Splitter.
It just feels unreliable to me. I know Iâm not the only one who feels this way, yet there wasnât a drastic change to the system which is what is strange.