3.8 suggested changes for Fulgore

patch
rebalance
fulgore
Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f74adaf0040> #<Tag:0x00007f74adaf7ef8> #<Tag:0x00007f74adaf7d40>
#1

Hello everybody,

This slightly reworked version of Fulgore has been out for a couple months by now, and after playing a while I came up with some personal suggestions that in my opinion might make my beloved robot a bit more efficient without buffing him too much and/or breaking balance.

Before starting, I’d like to point out that I am nowhere close to be a good player and have relatively little experience with the game compared to other forum users. Thus, I apologize if the following changes are deemed unreasonable by people with deeper knowledge of balance dynamics.

So, let’s start

  1. Non-charged Blade Dash versions are now -4, -5 and -7 on block from being -2, -3 and -4. (As a Fulgore player myself I recognize this move is sometimes abused because of its low risk. This change would be in line with IG’s recent tendency to nerf full screen special moves and would encourage more clever ways to approach the opponent. Light would be still safe I think, while medium and heavy could be punished. I’d keep them less punishable than Jago’s wind kick because blade dash doesn’t crush low attacks)

  2. Light Eye Laser and Medium are respectively 0 and +2 on block from being -2 and 0 (I think this return to the origins would be a good trade off for the Blade Dash nerf, giving Fulgore a good pressure tool at the cost of a slower reactor speed).

  3. Energy Bolts and Heavy Eye Laser damage output is restored to pre 3.6 patch levels (I feel that with the new instinct, Fulgore is way too starved for meter and his comeback factor has been drastically toned down. This is why I would raise the reward for using special moves that slow his reactor speed down. With no full screen safe approach anymore (see above), I think it’s reasonable to enhance Fulgore’s zoning tools.

  4. During Instinct, Fulgore’s shadow moves cost 3 pips instead of 4 (I know I’ll be under a shit storm for this, but in my opinion at the moment Fulgore’s istinct is most of the times merely a reversal or a way to gain a pip between rounds at best. This change wouldn’t be a huge buff and at the same time might slightly increase his comeback factor.)

Again, these are humble suggestions by a mediocre player who just plays for fun. My aim was to start a debate and of course all of the above mentioned points are open to criticism.
So guys, your turn, I’m really curious to hear your opinion, maybe from Fulgore veterans :relaxed:

3 Likes
#2

I honestly think its a bit too early to call for buffs or any further changes to Fulgore as the 3.6 patch isn’t that old. Yes he isn’t the nightmare that he used to be, but he is still crazy. He just has to work harder to get to that crazy.

2 Likes
#3

I’m not that good either, but trust me man. that blade dash keeps opposition thinking twice about forward momentum. trading breathing room for meter would undermine is zoning tools severely. but who knows.

#4

I concur.

Ok BUT WHY THOUGH :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::rage:[quote=“DarthStilnox, post:1, topic:20786”]
Energy Bolts and Heavy Eye Laser damage output is restored to pre 3.6 patch levels
[/quote]

One chance 40% in instinct…no thank you.[quote=“DarthStilnox, post:1, topic:20786”]
During Instinct, Fulgore’s shadow moves cost 3 pips instead of 4
[/quote]

That’s fair.

#5

Truthfully I don’t think fulgore’s blade dash is the same problem like it was for jago. His low laser and teleport are bigger issues. Him being completely invisible on your wake up is just unnecessarily strong for a character like him. Then having a fairly fast overhead that he can cancel into either a single or multi hitting low that can’t be punished without a reversal unless you try to sc which will only work maybe half the time since he can change the number of hits. I’d leave his blade charge alone and worry about those two. Since fulgore has to build meter differently I don’t see his move to.get in being unpunishable as big a problem.

4 Likes
#6

Good points.
On teleport invisibility I can understand it can be frustrating, but as far as I know from my poor experience, I have noticed there are other characters who have at least one “cheap” setup where the opponent is left to almost pure guessing after knockdown.

#7
Light Eye Laser and Medium are respectively 0 and +2 on block from being -2 and 0

Ok BUT WHY THOUGH :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::rage:

It was like this until July I think… My logic is nerf an approach, buff another (which already has negative effects on meter building).

#8

They do. But fulgore doesn’t have to set anything up. Spinal for example needs resources. Shadow jago needs surge meter etc. Fulgore can just teleport raw and the set up does itself.

3 Likes
#9

I’m against the idea that all forward moving specials need to be punishable. I think safe, scary mid-range pressure is one of the more interesting design choices in KI, and don’t wish to see the game lean further away from that dynamic. More to the point, I’d rather deal with safe-on-block blade dash than have to deal with plus pressure off a generally un-shadow-counterable low special again.

Your suggestions aren’t overwhelming one way or the other, but I don’t think Fulgore needs nerfs or buffs right now. Let the character and the game breathe.

1 Like
#10

Fulgore isn’t getting any buffs. Everyone still thinks he’s far and away the best character. But also, just about everyone who played him dropped him. Figure that one out.

#11

I believe that his instinct is really boring and not really useful at the moment. With free pip cancels you get stronger zoning for a little while but doing that will take away all your spin speed for afterwards.
It grants no real offensive bonuses after the ability to cancel from lasers to fireballs was taken out. Not that I think its too weak, but its pretty underwhelming in my opinion.

1 Like
#12

They dropped Fulgore, so they could pickup Glacius and abuse the cold shoulder :laughing:

1 Like
#13

Absolutely correct, his instinct is currently nothing more than a frame stop. Since they took away cancelling into fireballs from laser you can’t do anything crazy with it. It certainly doesn’t offer the burst pressure that sadira, orchid, and rash have, and it wrecks his spin speed to even use it.

And I’m sorry, but I’m absolutely sick of people stating that they want to “normalize” his blade dash by making it punishable. He quite literally does not get meter anymore, and the only way for him to get meter is with physical moves. So now we’re going to make his physical attacks punishable? It’s not like blade dash goes under fireballs meterlessly, its not like its a low crush or throw invunerable. His zoning has been severely nerfed (37% less damage off of projectiles, loss of anti-air laser), his meter gain has been destroyed, eye lasers are negative to 0 at best, and now people propose ruining his physical pressure too?

I’m with SadisticRage here, time to jump on the Glacius bandwagon. How he dodges these complaints is beyond me.

#14

I think I’d be ok with a few more nerfs but only if IG gave fulgore a new move. like a meter less air lazer that shot two lazers while in the air. exactly like his medium lazer now but airborne.

as it stands now they’re just taking s#|t away and damage nerfs.

#15

In regards to the OP here, since Fulgore has an extreme lack of meter to shadow cancel and the fact that he cannot pip cancel blade dash on block, I’m 100% against changing the frame data on blade dash. Even if you compensate with the lasers being +0 and +2, unless you’re going to allow pip cancels from a blocked blade dash, but even then I still don’t think that’s ok. Jago’s Wind Kick was nerfed because it made his approach good on top of having amazing close range game(Fulgore doesn’t compare to Jago in that range). With where Fulgore is right now, minor buffs would be all I could expect to see. No more nerfs. As far as any changes, I wouldn’t even make his laser +0 and +2 honestly. Here’s what i would do to Fulgore going forward.

Instinct: Spin speed cannot be reduced, spinspeed does not change upon instinct activation, free pip cancels can be done with or without pips(currently cannot pip cancel free in instinct without a pip) Pip Charge command changed to 3p so instinct activation online doesn’t force a pip charge in sub optimal environments.

Eye Lasers: Light and Medium Eye lasers can be pip canceled into Plasma Bots(confirms from pip cancels go into ender with no unbreakable damage) Heavy still cannot. Light Eye Laser +1 Medium Eye Laser -2 slightly reduced pushback on Medium Eye laser.

Blade dash: No changes necessary

Pip Cancel Properties: Specials into Shadows with 5 pips in stock do not consume a pip cancel expense. Shadow opener into shadow linker with 9 pips in stock do not consume a pip cancel expense.

Plasmaport: Shadow plasma port has slightly better tracking/auto correct properties when reacting to jumps and long distance specials (I.E. Wind Kick)

Spin Speed on Enders: Currently all physical enders grant a tiny bit of spin speed. Wall Splat and Dp enders, with the exception of Level 4 DP ender and Shadow Dp ender. They all grant the same spin speed so I would just make Level 4 DP Ender add that little tick too.

Right now the biggest detriment to Fulgore is just how starved he is of meter. I know he is a monster with meter, but the amount of effort to get there now almost makes it worth picking up a new character. That’s why I focused on putting his meter advantages in instinct, not always fundamentally available. +2 on a special from Fulgore is too much but I feel he should have 1 solid pressure special and having it on his Light eye laser rather than medium lets him have good offense(shadow counterable) while keeping his high low mixups. Medium laser is hard if not impossible to shadow counter. So leaving that one -2 I feel would be fair. His Spin Speed on enders is mostly irrelevant but, level 1-3 DP and level 1-4 blade dash enders all add spin speed, so why not level 4 dp ender? Shadow Plasma Port is probably one of the worst shadow moves in the game IMO. It has uses but, it’s completely matchup specific and even then it has extreme flaws. Shadow Blade dash is better 99/100 times. The pip cancel changes, moreso just quality of life. He already struggles to get meter, so why am I punished to spend 5 pips on a shadow when if I only have 4 pips the result is the same anyways? It’s a small oversight that needs to be fixed. If the outcome was different between 4 and 5 pips where I could plan accordingly sure, but it isn’t so just remove the extra cost on special into shadow, or shadow into shadow(Opener - linker and on block)

3 Likes
#16

Lvl 4 dp ender doesn’t increase spin speed? Sounds new to me :sweat: damn…

Also, I’d like to point out I would rather leave blade dash and eye lasers as they are than see the changes I have proposed implemented. The thing is, I almost got resigned to the blade dash nerf (so many requests…) and I kind of tried to cover our ■■■ by suggesting some balances.

#17

No? The best character is aria, I think. Mira’s not far behind. Fulgore is definitely somewhere below those two, and there are other characters fighting for a spot in the top 5.

#18

So I’ve heard this critique on a meter “starved” fulgore before. Curious question. How many shadows do you guys feel you are missing due to the changes? I’ve been playing the game since midway through season 2 and have always played fulgore. I’m just a ranked junkie scrub. I average around 300 games a month, never had more than 7000 points in a month. I know that ranked is not a true evaluation of talent just letting you know where I’m coming from. My point is that I average about 2-3 shadows a life bar. Whether they be used for reversals, counters, cash outs, linkers. Is that a “good” average or do I just not know what a meter “rich” fulgore looks like. To me I feel that I always have enough meter to play with and lose because of my shotty defense and break happy fingers. For the record I don’t play to conservative on my pips. As in I’m always looking to maintain 4. I’m not looking to get to full bar so I can go into his vortex fireball laser setups.I take damage at every opportunity and am constantly looking for the counter breaker. Just curious again on how many shadows you feel your not gaining compared to pre 3.7? Cheers!

#19

I’ll put it this way, in the average match, if it isn’t Fulgore getting Dominated, at some point in the match he should be able to reach Full Meter, spend a shadow and get back to Full meter. It’s a hard assessment to make really, but if you play well versed players, you’ll be surprised to see how little meter you have compared to them. Jago can average 10-15 shadows every match regardless of matchup or skill. Fulgore will be lucky to see 1/4 of that. Keep in mind what shadow meter does for most of the cast for both defense and offense. Yes, Fulgore has pip cancels, but with recent changes to them, his pip cancels are basically, projectile teleport, projectile dp and that’s it. He doesn’t have some crazy offense string from pip cancels. Jago’s close pressure is just as good as Fulgore’s proposed pip cancel pressure. Blade dash into DP pip cancel is good, but Orchid can do the same thing now. So it isn’t unique to him anymore and hers is free btw. Some characters have battery enders, all characters (Except Fulgore) get meter on block and from throws. Fulgore has to be offensive to get meter, so, his offense should be really good to compensate for his lack of defensive options. Yes he has a DP, but c’mon, it isn’t hard to bait one. Jago has DP and Battery ender, Orchid has DP, Thunder has Meter DP and Battery ender, Glay has DP and Battery Ender so it isn’t some unique tool that Fulgore can abuse to high heaven. Not to mention, Jago, Glacius, Orchid, can all Shadow Cancel their DP (Fulgore can too but remember the meter starvation?) You’re in a pressure situation with 1 pip. Do you wait 45 seconds to get 3 more pips to safe dp? Probably not… Most characters can block for 3-5 seconds and have meter to safe Dp if they have one.

So it doesn’t come down to how many shadow moves you get really, it’s how Fulgore can build his meter. He used to be able to pop instinct or charge it manually. Now Fulgore’s only option for meter gain is to be on offense with pressure. That’s it. No instinct will change that. Yes, he has pip charge in instinct but you have to be at advantage in that situation too. Or you can play Omen who almost never doesn’t have meter. All you have to do, is play Jago for a week. You’ll feel the meter difference. Hell you’ll even forget you have meter on Jago if you’ve been a Fulgore main since S1. I accumulate meter so fast on Jago I’m surprised when I have meter to spare.

#20

I understated and agree he doesn’t build meter like others but I always see the argument that there is no shadow to use for counters and cash outs. I said if I average 2 shadows generically a life bar I feel that’s OK. If I turn one of those into offense with a SC then I’m instantly spinning faster and building pips. I see guys make it seem like they never get past 2 pips since the changes and can’t ever do anything but get dunked. Even getting my ■■■ rocked I’m able to generate 8 pips. Yeah Jago gets a crap ton of meter but he gets more than the whole cast. Jago can’t teleport like fulgore can. He has always been in the bottom of the meter chart. So if I get 5 shadows to his 10 that’s how the characters are built.