There have been. In s2 aganos had multiple. And gargos has 7-3s over Sadira and Sabrewulf for awhile and aganos had one over Kim wu. Though whether they exist now I don’t think so. Closest imo atm is omen vs spinal.
Stuff like Kilgore vs Aganos, maybe Sadira vs Gargos. Would have to think about it a bit more, but they for sure exist. I think people just don’t want to use the term “7-3” because they think it might destroy the illusion that KI is really well balanced. You can have a well balanced game and let some 7-3s sneak through, it’s okay.
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I agree. Characters should have bad match ups.
Only fight I might truly call 7-3 now is Raam vs aria. Thanks to the whole missile bug being gone aganos can actually deal with kilgore alot better now. Sadira vs gargos probably still sucks…but may have got better for her as gargos got weaker.
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May be better but I think it’s still 7-3 probably? I haven’t seen the new matchup but Kilgore’s main strengths still handle Aganos well. Also, Gargos seems to be more or less the same character in the fight vs Sadira, all the stuff she particularly struggles against wasn’t really changed.
Particulars may be debatable but I do think there are 7-3s in the game and we shouldn’t feel bad to call them out when we think we see them.
Yeah me and sleep have played it a few times since the cup. It’s still in kilgore’s favor. But now aganos can actually hold onto his armor and very slowly make his way in.
Raam vs aria probably is 7-3. Though I don’t actually want to play that fight again to be sure.
Would RAAM - Shadow Jago fall into the 7-3 category as well? I probably just have trouble with the matchup but his ability to just teleport out of the corner is very infuriating.
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I still peg Gargos/Sadira as a 7-3 - the stuff that made the fight tough for Sadira hasn’t gone away at all. Riptor/Hisako in S2 was also a 7-3, as was Kan-Ra/Sadira I feel. Season 3 doesn’t have a ton of them, but I’d wager there are at least 3-4 across the cast.
With regards to your tier list @Xecutionner2k, a few of my thoughts:
- Glacius is very good, but not a Top 5 character IMO. Ditto Thunder (although a really good one can be pretty nuts)
- I don’t personally believe Gargos is that good. He has some very strong tools, but it’s not impossible to shut him down pretty hard before they ever get to build up to a critical mass.
- Spinal is pretty solidly mid-tier. I will never agree with Bass and others who think he’s borderline trash-tier (his mix-up game and momentum is way too potent to be near the bottom IMO), but he’s also not a Top 10 character.
- I believe Hisako is a Top 10 character. Loses only about 3 matches, and has very strong offensive options against the entire cast.
- Kim Wu is nowhere near Bottom 3. You need to really understand the character to perform with her, but she has some very strong tools. Fantastic walk speed, great buttons (st.MP), good burst damage, and solid conversion and whiff punish options. Kim is legit.
- Arbiter is nowhere near Bottom 3. Not super damaging, but you don’t have to be when you can cash out three times in a single combo. Has one of the most legit vortexes in the game actually, and his gunshots are one of the best projectiles (both in damage and in speed). I believe this character is very underrated.
- Sadira might well be bottom 3, but not for the reasons you list. Sadira is actually a surprisingly strong character on the ground (good walk speed, better than average normals), and there are very few characters who can truly challenge her air game (and Orchid is not one of them). She suffers from being outdamaged and having poor wakeup; her neutral and pressure options are actually very strong.
And yeah, Mira is Top 5 for sure. I think she’s probably a contender for Top 1. If we ever have a player who can actually learn to walk the razor’s edge of risk/reward with her, he will be an absolute monster.
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Unless she’s fighting, like, Kilgore, this is literally not an issue for her.
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I know Keits thinks Arbiter has some secret juice (and he might), but I don’t think he’s particularly strong in this patch. He struggles with anti-air in some important matchups and his space control, while good (and he has some disgusting normals) either loses to outright craziness or doesn’t control the fight well enough for him to overcome his low damage. I don’t find his vortex particularly great either, because grenades take a long time to regenerate and command grab damage is low.
He has the largest health pool in the game with overshield, which is something that helps him win tank wars, but he doesn’t build meter especially fast so it’s kinda only a marginal strength to me. His only real way to win, IMO, is a slow war of attrition which some of the important characters don’t care about, or can do roughly as well as him at (Fulgore).
I don’t trust tier lists, it all depends on the player.
Jago B Tier ?
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Seeing how thompxson, considered the best Jago in the world, couldn’t touch Waterhorses Glacius in a friendly session some days ago (5-11 final score? check bass YouTube) yeah, Jago is not higher than mid tier considering the avalanche of nerfs he received (fireball/ shadow fireball damage lowering instinct efficiency, mid wind kick -5 on block).
Now he’s supbar at midrange, resulting in a very honest character with nothing abusive.
I may even suspect thompson dropping him.
Absolutely not. I’ve yet to face a competent Shago, but the match-up feels like a 6-4 for Shago.
As a dedicated thunder main I can say without a doubt that he is not top tier. He is not bad by any stretch of the imagination but his options are limited compared to a sizable portion of the cast. His normals are ok but not the best, and when he hits you with any special, save for grab, if u block it his offense is pretty much over. I would say hes mid tier. Long range pressure is also a nightmare and sure you can sore over it like the majestic eagle you are but if its blocked well you are basically saying “plz hit me ive been a naughty boy”. I am happy with him as a character but I dnt believe he is top tier.
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I got mopped by a Glacius today in a FT20 12-20 (for a reference, it was 10-10 at the halfway point). That doesn’t mean the Glacius/Hisako fight isn’t 5-5. Sometimes you just get dunked.
And Waterhorses has always done well in that MU - he pretty routinely beat Thompxson in it even before patch 3.7.
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Sadira is still bottom tier… cries
Why you are trying to tell people who have been playing ki for years what the tiers are. 2 weeks vs years of experience and discussion on tier dissemination. I know 3.7 I newer but we have more experience.
Your logic is also faulted. Tiers are not based on just results but what would happen in a perfect environment. A good example are Xian and Snakeyes in SFIV they both were top 10 players in that game but we’re not going to say Zangief or Gen are top 10. No cause results aren’t everything.
your looking at this the wrong way and your arguing with people who should no better.