3.6 Patch Notes

#323

You didn’t pay for Shago’s new moveset, the money went to the community fund for tournaments, the 100k goal to make Shago unique wasn’t the cost of it, it was a) to gauge interest, and b) to incentivise people to donate to the fund.

2 Likes
#324

First, I have to note that I disagree w/ your assessment that Omen is the laziest character design - Sword-Ryu, I mean Jago, is certainly the laziest. Runners up include Wulf, Orchid, and Sadira. If I didn’t know about the Nez Perce tribe’s involvement w/ the crafting of Thunder, I would lump him in there too.

Honestly, DH were a group of pretty uninspired dudes. I’m so glad they’re off the project. How many more iterations of a shoto would we have if not for the Amazon buyout? I reckon too many.

Opinions. They’re all wrong, mine, yours, everyone.

Slide might be recycled from either Spinal or Orchid, but Divekick is definitely it’s own animation.

Look cheap as compared to what? Are you familiar with any other fighting games? Because recycling animations is a staple of the industry, and KI’s versions look decisively LESS “cheap” than it’s counterparts, especially SF5 and KOF14. The ONLY fighting games where you will find MORE unique animation relative to roster size is anime fighters.

We haven’t even really got egregious clone characters - thematically, we’ve got Monk v Evil Monk, Monk & Werewolf v. Random Energy Being Who Looks Nothing Like Monk or Werewolf, and Hi-Tech Deathbot v. Low-Tech Deathbot. Compare this to Karate Guy v. Red Karate Guy v. Angry Karate Guy v. Purple Karate Guy v. Karate Girl (I don’t count Dan as a shoto clone, because I have eyes).

It’s worth noting that these recycled animations that make the game look cheap are appearing in aggregate as characters that maintain their own unique aesthetic identity as well as ACTUALLY UNIQUE PLAYSTYLE, while existing as members of a FREE TO PLAY game. In the meantime, it has become fashionable to try and craft an unbecoming comparison with it’s major competition, SF5, which consists of approximately 4 unique playstyles amongst 23 characters, recycled animations sprinkled throughout the entirety of the cast, and bears pricetags ranging from $60-$120.

And before anyone pipes in with how much they spent on this game for how long, remember that YOU DIDN’T HAVE TO spend a dime, the game was free. You chose to spend on characters you thought were interesting for whatever reason, but you could have played the game all along free of charge. You don’t get to look at SF load screens w/o shelling out $60 up front.

2 Likes
#325

My comment has nothing to do with my “opinion.”

They actually did mention it. It was the specific reason they called Omen a “bonus character”, as they said due to the FACT that they were reusing some animations, that allowed them to put more emphasis on the other characters. Omen was a buffer character for Season 2.

You obviously don’t know what you are talking about. Shadow Jago was SUPPOSED to be just Jago with his boss moves. That is what the community was asking for.

What we got was a an entire rework of the character. Yes we paid for it, and yes they went beyond what people were asking for BECAUSE they don’t do clone characters. This is specifically why though Kilgore can be seen as a copy of Fulgore, that his traits and many moves are animated differently, and act differently during gameplay.

Again, not opinion; fact.

This is an opinion.

Reusing animations, or the bases of animations, isn’t necessarily a sign of laziness. With Mira especially, it would seem they were less cutting corners, and more paying homage to the lore of the character. You can not like that idea, but to blanket characters as “cheap” due to this practice is dumb because it of has little to nothing to do with the facts, and more to do with your own opinion.

That being said, you can have any opinion you want, just don’t try to hide behind that. Bottom line is you aren’t being objective here. You aren’t looking at all the facts and thus making a rational argument. IG/MS haven’t made a clone character yet, but they have reused specific animations for specific characters for different reasons. It wasn’t a “cheap” move regardless of how you feel about it, that was what they chose to do, and at the time when they did it, they provided the reason behind it pretty thoroughly.

4 Likes
#326

Ok, to the guy that says Omen is lazy…uh em… you are entitled to your opinion…but you are so wrong. What right do you have to say someones work is lazy? are you a game developer…NO… do you program animation and write code for Iron galaxy…NO… so how can you even say that something is lazy?

What you dont realize is that Omens see through body is one of the more difficult animations the dev team had to pull off from what I recall reading about Omen. Its something they are proud of to have been able to pull off.

Omens animations are no more recycled than any of the other characters… his Orda shield is no where close to Saberwulfs Eclipse beyond an over the head arch swipe. they both act and hit differently.
His slide is the only move some what rehashed and there are 3 others with slides.
We also have 3 characters with shoulder charges but no one is complaining about that.
What other Omen moves are recycled exactly?

SO whats your point behind all of this dislike for the game animations exactly?

2 Likes
#327

Maybe… as a player from the 90’s I’m bummed with the AI nerf, Is still hard but is not the same Kyle mode I saw in videos the past two years before I got the Xbox One and the game (FYI I got the game BEFORE the console).

#328

Preach the truth I hate when people say he’s some half assed cheap character, the only thing that would make him half assed is his cosmetics or lack there of other than that he’s a complete character.

2 Likes
#329

Not only that, but there is nothing lazy about game development in itself. Game makers reuse assets to save money not because they are lazy. The more funds they have the more assets they can create.

2 Likes
#330

Actually from what I remember they made it perfectly clear that Omen was going to be a Jago/Sabrewulf hybrid before he came out. They didn’t hide anything in regards to what he was or how he was made or that he was a quicker build than most of the other characters so they released him mid-season to give them more time for others.

1 Like
#331

Like every other fighting game, Killer Instinct (1994) was inspired on pop culture, movie tropes and cliches. Double Helix took this super 90s characters and poured their heart into modernizing them, making them feel fresh and unique. The Killer Instinct Artbook is a testament to that. And for the most part IG has continued that direction. Which I’m thankful for.

But is it hard to understand that from this KI fan’s perspective that that same uniqueness and careful crafting seems a bit at risk when we get characters with recycled assets?

Am I saying they should scrap bonus characters? No.
Do I hate bonus characters? No, I do enjoy them.
Do I appreciate the devs’ efforts for adding new stuff? Yeah, 100%.
But would I rather pay or wait more time for fully-fledged characters? Yes.
Is it because I have a bias towards aesthetics? Yes.

In the end the devs and the majority of the community to some extent are the ones that dictate the future of KI. The only thing I can do is present my thoughts of where it’s heading. But seems it’s hard to talk about criticisms without getting people riled up.

@FallofSeraphs76

So how can you even say that something is lazy?

Alright maybe lazy it’s the wrong word. I think the cosmetic design, beyond the mask, is uninspiring.

What you dont realize is that Omens see through body is one of the more difficult animations the dev team had to pull off from what I recall reading about Omen. Its something they are proud of to have been able to pull off.

Just a note, I think you’re using “animation” to refer to three different things: the 3D model, the animations and the actual moves. Regarding the see-through-body, don’t know for sure about that, but Glacius has had a see-through-body since day one. Also don’t take my word for it, but wasn’t Omen’s visual effects like a test for Cinder? But I think I do remember them saying it was a technical achievement.

Omens animations are no more recycled than any of the other characters… his Orda shield is no where close to Saberwulfs Eclipse beyond an over the head arch swipe. they both act and hit differently.

I think you meant “move” here instead of “animation”. Because the animation is almost exactly the same, the actual “attack” or “move” is the one that’s completely different.

His slide is the only move some what rehashed and there are 3 others with slides.

Now that I think about it, Omen’s slide isn’t the same as Spinal’s, if I remember correctly it was Jago’s unused slide that went to Shadow Jago. I think.

We also have 3 characters with shoulder charges but no one is complaining about that.

I’m blanking out a bit, could you list them? I just remember Glacius and Eyedol. But they do have different animations.

What other Omen moves are recycled exactly?

All of the normals and autodoubles.

SO whats your point behind all of this dislike for the game animations exactly?

I mention it on my previous post. Let me clarify that I don’t dislike the game’s animations. In a nutshell, I just rather not have characters with recycled animations and cosmetics. That’s all. I just rather have more characters that feel like they’re living individuals from other worlds that just happen to be in the same game. Which is how S1 and pre-Omen S2 felt to me.

No hate, just love for KI.

@UncappedWheel82

You obviously don’t know what you are talking about. Shadow Jago was SUPPOSED to be just Jago with his boss moves. That is what the community was asking for.

Yeah, I researched and @MBABanemobius was right, we didn’t pay for it. I’m not saying what he was or wasn’t supposed to be. I’m just saying he has a lot of recycled animations.

Reusing animations, or the bases of animations, isn’t necessarily a sign of laziness.

You’re right. It isn’t.

You can not like that idea, but to blanket characters as “cheap” due to this practice is dumb because it of has little to nothing to do with the facts, and more to do with your own opinion.

Which is what I did.

That being said, you can have any opinion you want, just don’t try to hide behind that. Bottom line is you aren’t being objective here.

Not hiding and probably not being objective since I’m presenting my feelings of some of the decisions taken regarding the art direction of KI, not writing a dissertation on the current state of KI. But I do thank you guys for helping me clear some misremembered events.

IG/MS haven’t made a clone character yet, but they have reused specific animations for specific characters for different reasons.

True. Like I said, Kilgore seemed to me a slightly altered clone. Not full clone. After seeing some posts that answered my initial question, he seems more in the vain of Jago-Shago than Ken-Ryu (SFV).

It wasn’t a “cheap” move regardless of how you feel about it, that was what they chose to do, and at the time when they did it, they provided the reason behind it pretty thoroughly.

Ok, you want an objective statement, here it goes.

Statement: Bonus characters use recycled animations, and Mira reuses some of Maya’s animations.

Opinion: It is an infringement to the perceived integrity I expect from this franchise. And it worries me that it might lead to an increase use of recycled assets in future characters.

Can we agree? If we’re done fighting, I honestly would like to hear your opinion on the topic. For all I know I might be the only one feeling this way.

Thanks to all of your replies, even though we might disagree, it warms my heart being able to discuss with fellow passionate KI fans. It’s been a while.

1 Like
#333

I don’t mind recycled assets so long as the overall character is still awesome, mostly unique, and fun. In all cases - Omen, Shago, Mira, and now Kilgore - IMO, IG has succeeded.

1 Like
#334

My opinion? Re-used assets are good for the game. They allow the teams to stretch their budget(s) a bit, and I have enough faith in the minds at IG/MS that the end-product will well exceed the sum of it’s parts. As a long time fighting game player, I don’t really bat an eyelash at recycled animations, as they’re relatively commonplace and always have been. Moreover, I really just don’t understand the integrity you perceived in the first place… for me, this iteration is the first time the franchise really had integrity, and it’s not being infringed upon by some traditional cost-cutting measures. It is, however, being infringed upon by a legion of genre-newcomers and longtime fans with unfathomably (and irrationally) inflated opinions of “the competition” cherry-picked and regurgitated from social media personalities with contractual bias.

It is this very phenomena that created an atmosphere wherein people are actively discussing the notion that the future of fighting games depends on the success of Street Fighter. And it is precisely why this game is so little-known - it’s own audience is so twisted up with nostalgia and expectation and misinformation & derisive internet culture that it doesn’t tend to generate it’s own “hype” or word-of-mouth marketing. Instead, even our own prominent streamers are often a selection of LTG’s. We are encouraged to deliver our opinions, our suggestions, “feedback”, from behind our anonymous screen names. They listen, and they communicate in return, and that rapidly devolves into fans delivering feedback in unproductive, derisive diatribes (or tiny little outbursts), regardless of level of knowledge (which is often lacking) regarding a situation with which to derive context. If we don’t make it to EVO, if this is indeed the end of the line for KI, it will be because it’s fans chose to kill it rather than help it pick up steam.

Doing what is in KI’s best interest is easy: have fun, and show people you are having fun. Someone around here once said that 'when someone is having fun, and you see that person having fun, the typical response is “Gimme some of that fun,”. That is the truest bit fandom wisdom I’ve ever heard. Want your thing to thrive? Let it thrive. Boom, done. Magic. Remember that as far as They Who Hold The Purse Strings are concerned, we’re free to play. Word-of-mouth is exceptionally important to our longevity.

That, my fine fellow, is my opinion, and I am glad you asked for it. I appreciate you fostering such an atmosphere, and I mean that with no sarcasm.

4 Likes
#335

In the end having fun with KI is why we are all here right? Some people seem to forget why we play games in the first place…

6 Likes
#336

I hope it gets fixed soon.

#337

My opinion? Re-used assets are good for the game. They allow the teams to stretch their budget(s) a bit, and I have enough faith in the minds at IG/MS that the end-product will well exceed the sum of it’s parts.

I completely understand the advantages, whatever opinions I might have about the visual aspect of KI, I have complete faith in IG when it comes to the actual “game” and combat aspect. I mean, just look at everything they gave Glacius <3

As a long time fighting game player, I don’t really bat an eyelash at recycled animations, as they’re relatively commonplace and always have been. Moreover, I really just don’t understand the integrity you perceived in the first place… for me, this iteration is the first time the franchise really had integrity, and it’s not being infringed upon by some traditional cost-cutting measures.

I’m probably one of the few here who really enjoy the “visual integrity” I talked about and tend to get uppity when it feels like it’s being threatened. But I also appreciate the integrity you mention, and if worse comes to worst, I hope they at least manage to maintain that one.

It is, however, being infringed upon by a legion of genre-newcomers and longtime fans with unfathomably (and irrationally) inflated opinions of “the competition” cherry-picked and regurgitated from social media personalities with contractual bias.

I know there’s a lot of sensibilities regarding the FGC’s current stand on KI, but honestly, I feel like we shouldn’t give into the frustration. KI’s had a really tight community, that while critical, they always stand behind the devs and the game. And that’s what we should keep doing.

It is this very phenomena that created an atmosphere wherein people are actively discussing the notion that the future of fighting games depends on the success of Street Fighter. And it is precisely why this game is so little-known - it’s own audience is so twisted up with nostalgia and expectation and misinformation & derisive internet culture that it doesn’t tend to generate it’s own “hype” or word-of-mouth marketing. Instead, even our own prominent streamers are often a selection of LTG’s. We are encouraged to deliver our opinions, our suggestions, “feedback”, from behind our anonymous screen names. They listen, and they communicate in return, and that rapidly devolves into fans delivering feedback in unproductive, derisive diatribes (or tiny little outbursts), regardless of level of knowledge (which is often lacking) regarding a situation with which to derive context. If we don’t make it to EVO, if this is indeed the end of the line for KI, it will be because it’s fans chose to kill it rather than help it pick up steam.

Kinda deep, but I do agree with the sentiment. But this is the nature of the FGC. You can see it with SFV right now, they’re not in the best spot. The fandom has been turning against them and Capcom for a while now. Personally I haven’t been playing KI that much because since 2013, I’ve been the only one from my group of friends who played it. As soon as SFV came out, my friends got hyped again and there I was playing SFV, which I do enjoy, but I do wish they would at least give KI a try. But they just aren’t interested. No matter how hype they get for me when they see me stream or I share my vids, they just don’t care for the game. And I’m pretty sure this is the same perception shared by most of the FGC.

Doing what is in KI’s best interest is easy: have fun, and show people you are having fun. Someone around here once said that 'when someone is having fun, and you see that person having fun, the typical response is “Gimme some of that fun,”. That is the truest bit fandom wisdom I’ve ever heard. Want your thing to thrive? Let it thrive. Boom, done. Magic. Remember that as far as They Who Hold The Purse Strings are concerned, we’re free to play. Word-of-mouth is exceptionally important to our longevity.

It would seem that way, but honestly, it seems the FGC and general audience have this weird… reservations? When it comes to KI. It appears to me that they see the game, they notice it looks fun, but then go and say “Why try it if it’s not gonna last” or something to that extent. Which is what happens to me when I see other fighting games that I’m not interested in. In my opinion, the only thing I can do as a fan right now is: play the damn game, talk about it, be active in the community and generate fan content.

That, my fine fellow, is my opinion, and I am glad you asked for it. I appreciate you fostering such an atmosphere, and I mean that with no sarcasm.

Same! fist bump

1 Like
#338

Suport control MADCATZ TE2+???

Where is the support for the MADCATZ TE2 + controls? Before version 3.4 worked normally, it seems to eliminate support for Xbox 360 controls that XImput emulates

Correct this please, I am not playing instinct killer because my control does not work, it runs normal not MKX, SF5, etc. Only non-functional killer

1 Like
#339

I must say KI has by the coolest costume options ever!
It makes the game so much deeper…

Yellow Voltron Jago is sooooo kewl!

2 Likes