0 Adaptation

#1

Look at these frame advantages.

St. LP 4/2
Cr. LP 4/1
St. LK 0/-1
Cr. LK 2/-2
St. MP 5/0
Cr. MP 5/3
St. MK -1/-4
Cr. MK -1/-4
St. HP 15/-1 STAGGER
Cr. HP 5/-3

(Heavy kicks I need not mention, as they have their respective properties & are to be used judciously.)

Listen, I can’t with people constantly saying that this character is NOT good unless he has minions out. His buttons are insanely good. He’s got some really decent attack speed start ups as well; he CAN be abusive at close range. He has tick throw set ups, ambiguous quad jump mobility to avoid neutral or footsies whenever, He has full screen tracking portal punches, & when minions are out, forget about it. What to do against all of this? Does anyone have any sound advice on how to play against this character and have FUN, or a potential LEARNING EXPERIENCE?

1 Like
#2

Good job, you forgot to include startup speed, hitboxes, range, etc.

Mashable jabs are supposed to generally be plus on block and cr.MP is pretty stupid, but believe me, most of Gargos’ normals are pretty terrible.

7 Likes
#3

I’m no pro but IDK man gargos is, at least I feel, pretty easy to beat with a couple of characters.

Jago, Glacius, Aganos and maybe Tusk to name a few.

I think it really depends on the player who plays gargos.

Also did all the hatred of gargos come from last evo? It’s all I see these days :confused:

#4

None are combable into reckoning, and portal punch is unsafe if blocked, so if your normal is blocked you can’t use those

Also, only lp and c.lp are linkable between them, and Gargos fastest attack is s. Lk, which is not linkable into itself.

Also, isolating the advantage of his normal on hit on block is a poor job to valorate Gargos strenght or weakness

Are you pressing the correct button during Gargos wakeup? One which beats every option he has and recovers to block reversal heavy reckoning?

Are you giving him space?

Which move gives you problems? Have you labbed a solution?

3 Likes
#5

To be fair crouch MP is really amazing in all aspects.

#6

Define Footsies.

I like this definition:

And given that, Gargos is actually playing Footsies, the same as Dhalsim staying at fullscreen and using long range pokes, teleports and fireballs.

2 Likes
#7

Will respond more fully later on tonight when I have some time, but a few things:

  • No one says Gargos is a bad character up close. He is awful on knockdown; those are not the same thing
  • Gargos is a mediocre (not bad) character without minions. He has good full screen and close-in options in general. His mid-range and defense are where he struggles.
  • Gargos cannot avoid neutral. Footsies and neutral are not the same thing, unless you want to define “footsies” with an expansive definition like @Dayv0 has provided above. If neither of you are in hit or block stun, you are playing neutral. You are free to dislike Gargos’ brand of neutral, but stop conflating this with not playing neutral. It is a sloppy use of terms and muddles your argument/complaint.

When he is portal punching, simply walk and block. If you have the reactions for it, sammamish through the heavier versions. When he gets backed up too far and tries to fly out of the corner, sammamish him. When minions are out, sacrifice life to hit them. Patient and calculated play tends to defeat Gargos - he’s basically counting on you being impatient and granting him openings he hasn’t really earned.

I can’t speak to how “fun” the MU should be for you. You should be learning how to play patiently, however, and with Thunder in particular, how to DP on reaction any attempt at someone trying to jump their way out of a bad situation. Whether it’s enjoyable or not, there’s a lot you should be learning when fighting Gargos.

3 Likes
#8

Basically this.

1 Like
#9

Gargos is supposed to be good in an arc, as Keits described it during his reveal stream.

Decent up close.

Decent flying around in midrange.

Decent from afar.

Terrible at midrange grounded.

And hence why I think cr.MP is too good for the kind of character he is. You should give a button like that to a character who’s meant to have good normals, like Wulf or Raam.

1 Like
#10

Basically this. Gargos has a pressure frame trap that once he hits it, you have to respect it. Id rather it be plus 1 so that you can only frame trap with a light.

#11

I’d rather that button have slower startup but keep its advantage. It would allow Gargos’ mixup game to be unchanged but his midrange pressure and spacing game to be worse.

#12

It’s weird. I think thunder has one of the EASIEST tools dealing with gargos. He can basically fly across the screen with sammammish. Space it out. Walk and block when you too far. Trust me. A gargos player is afraid of thunder up close :joy:. Patience in due diligence will make you exceed in this match up.

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#13

Thunder gets zoned out easier than most characters in that matchup because his jump is floaty and his dash isn’t known for its speed, it’s kinda average from what I understand.

If Thunder makes good reads on mixups and gets in close, he can punish Gargos easier and harder than most characters in the game.

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#14

Well that would explain my complete and utter distaste for Thunder in season 3, considering I’ve been using Gargos for most of it.

5 Likes
#15

I have fun fighting gargos. At least a competent one anyway. Outside cr.mp most of his buttons aren’t that great. Mentioning standing mk as a good one was a terrible call since its minus 4 and liable to interruption from many moves. Most jabs are + so I don’t see how that means much. Far as playing him with thunder…Walk forward…block wait read and destroy him. Take the hits for minions since portal punches do ■■■■ damage. Or use a projectile invincible move. I can do it with raam then you can do it with someone who flies across the Damn screen. Once you’re on gargos just keep abusing him and he’ll fall. Force him to use shadow counters so he can’t get minions. You have a command throw so you can force him to sc and he may not even get rewarded for it. The character is designed to be annoying…but no he isn’t that good. You’re just letting him annoy you alot.

3 Likes
#16

cr.MP is a star normal in his arsenal but the rest of his normals are kinda buttcheeks to be honest. He only has one 5 framer and it’s not chainable, jabs don’t even combo into safe on block special moves, and his heavies are pretty unusable outside of far range zoning (like sweep); fierce is super slow at 15 frames so it gets dunked in scrambles.

I agree cr.MP could be changed to be +2 on block and 1 frame slower or something, but like… even with that move, his normals aren’t better than average.

And Gargos is okay-ish up close; if you haven’t labbed up counters to reckoning, sometimes he’ll get you with a relatively low damage mixup there, and sometimes he’ll cancel into command grab and get you. But… the character needs something when he doesn’t have minions so that he has a chance to hit his opponent. Imagine how useless he would be if he didn’t have this stuff; no way to deal damage, no mixups possible, and no way to build meter for minions doesn’t sound like a KI character to me. But even so, I wouldn’t classify him as particularly good at anything until he gets minions.

6 Likes
#17

@SonicDolphin117 @STORM179 @Dayv0 @ItzTymeToDul @FeverAyeAye

please bro, this guy is complainning about gargos??? he self play a more annoying character than gargos, i prefere 100 time to fight gargos than thunder s3, all hes doing is DP all day ’ dp crossup dp juggles , flip out , shadow command grab etc… repeat x10

@CHANCHULA so please leave gargos alone, cause gargos never has killed someone or even has take a full life bar after a reset or after one opening + counterbreak , he got not flip out no heavy damage like thunder does, so why you complain? do you know how many peoples would complain for the thunder stupid damages + flip out?? no so please ,

Believe me on 10 peoples maybe only 1 or 2 has fun playing against thunder s3. gargos is fare less annoying that him.
Leave my flying ’ chicken " aka gargos alone en enjoy the game or adapt yourself to him, like does everybody

#18

You are just a bottle of sunshine, aren’t you.

Don’t talk to me like I’m taking a side here.

9 Likes
#19

lo lol my bad i did n’ say that you took a side on here ahhaha

myself dont like gargos but if he got nerf againt this character will be so boring

#20

Having perspective is useful to discuss every char amd their tools. You don’t have to bring his character(in the way you did) to discuss about Gargos

1 Like