My focus was geared towards his attack advantage in particular. One doesn’t necessarily have to include all of the extras to express the point. His buttons are really good. Good enough to ward of anyone thats up close. Thats the point. cr.MP 5/3 is the dumbest move in the game right now imo. There are others, but this… omg.
I’m just going to act like I didn’t read any of this. Carrying on.
How did you handle Jago’s fwd+HK when it was +3 on block and hit confirmable (which Gargos cr.MP is not)? Use the same strategies for this move.
No, they are average, with the exception of c.mp which is very good.
I could take frame adv on hit and block in all characters and Gargos wouldn’t be among the good ones.
Extreme example: if a move is +50 on block, and +120 on hit, but has 300 startup frames, is a good move? If you only consider adv on block/hit, yes, but looking at the startup, that move is bullshit.
You have to consider startup, active frames, hitbox and recovery on whiff too, not only adv on hit/block. Otherwise you not looking at the big picture, which is very important here
There are some good points made here. We’re getting somewhere. I would like to see a change to this cr.MP though. It’s so good.
Sabrewulfs overpower says hello
Im seeing a trend of late. I feel like players in general, as each patch rolls around, look around at the next strongest character and call for nerfs to them. Its like characters are seemingly not allowed to have good tools sometimes.
That’s not to say i think Gargos’ cr. MP shouldn’t be nerfed or just him in general. I don’t particularly love or hate the matchup with my main. I have to play up close too, where he’s strong. He’s a pain, but manageable i think, by a good chunk of the cast.
I could be wrong but wasnt Jagos f+HK always shadow counterable with no option for Jago to avoid it?
And isnt Gargos cr.mp linkable on counter hit (which happend quite often due to the frame advantage and low pushback on block) in itself making it pretty easy to hitconfirm?
Aside from instinct cancel or spacing such that you only hit with the 2nd hit, yes, Jago can’t dodge the shadow counter. But I’d argue if Gargos’s cr.mp is super good and people hit it repeatedly, shadow counter is super strong there too. You don’t have to hold the plus frames repeatedly if you have meter.
If you don’t have meter, then both situations are kind of the same, except Jago has much easier confirms and ways to trick you into getting hit, IMO. Gargos must repeatedly press the same button if he wants any frame advantage at all, or must take a risk on a mixup (cancel into command grab is really his only actual mixup here).
Gargos cr.mp is linkable into itself on counter hit, yes, but you activate the 3 move rule, so you just break lights if he tries to confirm into light crusher or light portal (he must either reset or force a counter breaker guess there). It’s a pretty weak confirm considering it must be counter hit and he has to use a light move to keep the combo going.
The move is strong but I think people aren’t really looking at their options here, considering we’ve dealt with a much more dangerous +3 on block normal (as well as Wulf’s overpower) for some time now. Maybe they’ll change it and we won’t have to bother, but if they don’t, I don’t think it breaks the game.
lol this thread was something interesting it really is just about begging a character to be nerfed but here there were more then just complaints about gargos and so much more… i was not expecting this
@CHANCHULA by the way did not know you were on the forums lol
CR MP doesn’t reach “midrange grounded.” At that range it results in a whiff and a punish.
It’s still very much within the realm of close range.
Mid range, the range he’s weak at, is the range where none of his non-sweep normals hit, and portal punches result in the other player’s turn on block, or an outright punish.
Cr MP is literally the only thing keeping the character relevant without minions.
You’re not asking for him to be bad at something he’s meant to be bad at, but instead to add an additional weakness to the already established list of weaknesses for the character. (Weak Midrange [Actual Mid Range], Low Damage, Mediocre offense without minions in an offense game, and no defense/wakeup.] Why?
The argument that his cr. MP belongs on a different character disproves itself. Give a +3 on block medium attack to certain characters and they’d move up a whole tier. On Gargos, with his tools? It’s an inconvenience at best. Maybe that’s why he has it.
Hmm. I suppose I could’ve explained myself better.
You make a pretty good argument, I’ll admit, though I think this
…is kind of an exaggeration, don’t you think?