Wulfs bad MU's and how to handle them

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As the title says, I’d like to address this topic head on. So far, I’ve come to the understanding that the Sadira MU is very, very do able. She used to give me the hardest time, but once I realized that all you needed was to keep her outta the air, everything went a lot easier from that point. After you score a hard knockdown, (or almost any knockdown really) you can easily apply the pressure with overpower, and apply a decent amount of mixups after. I’ve learned that keeping up the pressure mixed with a little ambiguity goes a long way, but how do we deal with other members of the cast? What are some of my fellow wulf brethren’s thoughts on bad MU’s, and how to deal with them?

@MaruMDQ

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Yeap, I saw it. I’m just in the middle of a what it looks to be a neverending laryngitis or flu that just doesn’t want to go yet xP

I was thinking of the way I feel about Wulf’s match ups. Whenever I get better I’ll come back to give my opinion =)

Why do I feel like you guys arent exactly friendly towards this topic? :thinking:

Sadira isn’t a bad MU for Wulf. His jHP easily knocks her down and well timed Eclipse keeps her off of him pretty easily. As you mentioned unless she has meter, she’s pretty free to Wulf once grounded. Get her into a corner and she’s toast.

can you stuff her shadow flip kick with a meaty overpower?

no. Shadow Recluse has upper body invincibility. Most of the time you want to dash forward, block, and then attack.

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i think i just found a bug with that. im waiting on the clip to get to the xbox dvr so i can show you. i just stuffed it lol.

Not a bug. The upper body invul isn’t enough to avoid overpower, you can see her hurtbox raising up into the move’s hitbox during the screen freeze.

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If you’re looking for match-up advice for Wulf there’s some pretty good rules to follow that can make it easier to judge

-Sabrewulf can totally dunk you if your character doesn’t have good wake up options

-If they do have good wakeup, Sabrewulf will need to respect it most of the time, which can hamper his up close pressure

-Characters who can zone him out are a big problem for him. Not as big as they used to be with the buffs to his run/hamstring and his new Diving Slash, but still quite a problem. It’ll force you to be patient with your approach.

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Upper body invincibility usually works well against high attacks(like, any aerial attack, or attacks with high hitbox like Aganos far HP), but most normals can stuff it. Overpower, HK, any low attack… all of them can win against Shadow recluse

Don’t take it that way man, we are always open to friendly discussion

On topic: What do you think about Gargos MU against Wulf since the last patch?

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Why would you? It’s just I’m sick at bed and not feeling good to go typing in my PC. And my cell is not good.
About overpower is not the best meaty because is tricky. Use back-forward HK as a read for backdashing (which is faster than overpower in the startup and reaches far away). For meaty you can use c.MK, which has wonderful active frames or try c.MP which has longer reach (but is -2). You can also use c.LP(X2) to punish most backdashings (watch out timing).
If you prefer frametrapping when they are in the corner use c.LK , it has little pushback and can use more than one to keep your pressure going.

I’ll write more later when possible

Yes. Shadow recluse has no invincibility whatsoever. It is zero after the freeze though, so whatever you hit it with does have to be meaty. If you see the screen freeze, then you’re gonna get hit.

After finding and reading the notes, it would seem that Gargos got fit by the nerf hammer pretty hard at first glance with his damage debuff and all, but then i thought about it. He still has access to all of his keep away game. His c.MP is still a damn good button too for closer encounters, but just like it says in the notes, he cant really spam it that hard anymore. He got more pushback on his blocked attacks however, and im not sure how to feel about that. Could that be used to HIS advantage?? I have an idea on that one lol. His jumping HK got 5 more frames which is pretty nice in my opinion. All in all though, I think the match is still in his favor. He still has all of his zoning tools. his command grabs are still REALLY good in my opinion, especially on tick throws. Lets not forget about the minions too. I say thats still a very uphill battle for wulf if he cannot stay absolutely 100% in control with his pressure. But even still…gargos will get meter at some point…

This are all my opinions and points of view. I have lot to learn yet.


Ok Lets see:

Bad match ups

Gargos: The Smash Brawl fight

Still has tools to keep Wulf away, but the main problem will be with minions. That’s when it’s harder for Wulf. Using advancing shadows special (Shadows ragged edge is best for reach and speed) is good for getting rid of minions and catch Gargos in the ground. Harder if he is flying with his multiple jumps. Once Gargos is in the ground try to not let him go away: use meaty and all the pressure game Wulf has to offer since this Shadow Lord has no wake up option. If you check his instinct is full anticipate it with a heavy normal (overpower, HP, HK meaty or sweep)

Glacius: The alien guy Wulf hated since the begining of time…Lets say 1994.

This one is hard…Dodging everything Glacius has is not easy. So you should try to get your turn back without desperation taking over your gameplan. Galcius Cold shoulder pushback is stronger in the corner, but I think you can catch the three versions with cr.LP for whiff punish, if not try cr.MP but cr.MK despite being shorter would stop the double spam because it doesn’t hit low. I would like a way to identify the different versions to avoid the “light cold should-puddle punch treat”. This can be also avoided by a timed neutral jump. However with a hail will be much more complicated.
When you get closer (near sweep distance) keep in mind that cr.MP and HP low profiles Ice lance. If he wants to use shatter you can catch him and punish. Good distance for shadow leaping slash too if he is covering with hail, but he can stuff it ice lance, so time it well.
If he summons hail like two or three bodies away you can punish with back-forward + LK on reaction.
Talking about approaching it would be better get hit by hail rather any normal in the ground. Be patient.
If he jumps back you can choose to AA with cr.HK or a well timed eclipse. Still tricky thouh. Preferably block and get closer with back-forward HK and then if you get point blank and he neutral jump gor for a nice AA to confirm.
At point blank watch out for puddle puch when using your pressure. You have normals to keep a tiny distance to avoid his great throw reach.
Oh, also don’t forget to use the dive to position yourself in a better spot, getting closer and everything.

Kan Ra: The old salt master…I meant sand master!

Similar to Glacius in the “patience” game but maybe even more…If he has started his sand offense and set ups you are going to have a rough time. Catching him in his jumps using back-forward HK (running upercut which is the fastest of the run cancels) jump + forward MK (diving slah) is ok. I would suggest running uppercut though. Once you get shadow wait for the right distance to catch him using his projectiles (spitttin the moths or wathever) and use shadow leaping slash for a punish. Many Kan Ras would wait for this if you are knocked down and won’t just throw a projectile but would meaty you with a (don’t know which is it…MP or HP?). I think that if you are hit or catch by a projectile you can break the manual coming after it. But I don’t remember right now (if it is an opener then I’m pretty sure it’s possible, so learn how his far normals look like).
At point blank he can’t do much. It’s the moment to start your pressure. He can use sacrifice if he has sand, keep an eye on him. His normals are slow too, so take advantage and don’t let him go away. Watch out for his jump HK (you can knock him out of the air either with a greatly timed normal if you are fancy or just use heavy eclipse for a more reliable move). because that jump is veeery good. You can also shadow counter his Jump HP with shadow. But I would save it for a better use.
Oh, and you can time standard ragged edge (back-forward + LP/MP/HP) between the moth projectiles to catch him. But it’s not very safe, so be careful.

Aria: the arrogant robotic fashion model

Mmh, this one is interesting. Learn to punish her shotgun knee. She can use the assist which makes it a lot harder. If she does that you can try to hit the assist (specially the dp one, but only in its recovery frames). Low profile hammstring won’t do great because she can go over it with ease. You should use either your long ranged normals /running upercut or light ragged edge. Of course you can also shadow counter her shotgun knee if she isn’t using assist. Also shadow ragged edge is good for punishment because of its speed. So be prepared to punish her and block her air attacks as much as you can.
When she zones you…Be patient, walk and block.

Omen :The lovely electricity guy with a big heart.

In this match keep in mind that Omen hasn’t got a great wake up. You should chase him to take advantage of this,but when he has bar be careful. Well, not that much…He can either shadow counter you (that’s why you can use tick thow him, use meaties,

*Tick throwing means to throw somebody who is in their blocking animation. You use a move which forces the opponent to guard for more frames than your recovery, allowing you to input a throw while they have no choice but to keep guarding. Depending on the game, whether you can tech (break) throws or not, this may or may not be inescapable.

Or Omen’s can chose to go into shadow form, which is punisheable, just keep the timing in mind (I like counting it but I can’t tell for sure how I do it, played a lot against Omen and it’s still a challenge when he has the upper hand). Don’t let an Omen abuse the QCB LK because it’s -1, take your turn and use Cr.LP (jab!). Watch out for the ball patterns, but they are random so if they slide or whatever don’t just attack until you block the last ball. he has very nice normals too so wait to press your buttons inmediately when he has pressure on you. Learn to defend of the " floaty jump normal cancel in the air thing" he does, or in shot,his air approach. A timed eclipse will knock him out of it too. Catch him in the air with HP (similar to Sadira) taking advantage of that very nice air normal.

Shadow Shago: He is like a mad and agressive bumblebee

Honestly I don’t know which one I prefer to fight against: a more rushdown version or a zoning version. The first one will use everything to confuse you and mix you up. If you can get to really block him then eventually he will do something unsafe or negative and then you can punish. You can catch his back dashing with running upercut. Don’t go for eclipse much, the timing is horribly hard to get it right. Watch out for the dash through throws and DPs he has. He can be knocked down out of that mix up if you can catch him with a like dp after the forward+HK dash mix up. But it may not work always, too tricky…
Learn to break his normal and shadow linkers. When using your pressure try to bait his dp. I think his vulnerable to meaties in all his other moves.
When he is zoning you can low profile his fireballs with a cr MP or HP. Get closer, watch out for mixup, if he tries surged slide punish the second it (really easy to punish it, really hard to react, but maybe some people have great reactions).

Fulgore: The bot whose name can be pronounced with a funny italian accent: “Ful Góooo Reee!”

Well, similar to Jago match up. It was a harder match up but I kind of enjoy this mu rather than others. You have great normals at close, use them. For the zoning, same as Jago, neutral jump with dive slash for positioning and baiting stuff. Use hammstring when closer to catch Fulgore throwing a fireball. You can get out of his pressure with your own fast normals whenerver he goes for overhead or uses a negative laser/normal. Shadow counter his forward HP, you can also throw him or hit him out of it if their timing is baaad. Keep in mind you can break everything after his fireball confirms during his vortex/mix ups.

Maya: the amazonian girl with a mexican name because of a 3D software that gave us lovely visual effects

Uugh, such an annoying fight…Low profile her daggers as much as you can with Cr.MK. She has the upper hand in the air with great priority. Don’t go for shadow eclipse in your wake up, never! she can easily get away with that. Save it for a shadow leaping slash that goes throw her poyectiles. Meaties on her wake up (unless is shadow) are a great idea! you can stuff her dp with ease, even with a timed overhead. Remember the daggers priority, the pruple (medium) is like 0 and the yellow (light) is the one that’s more unsafe, watch out when you want to start pressing buttons then.

General Raam: you still haven’t experienced much about salt until you are ‘new to Gears of War multiplayer’.._

Grapplers are a problem for a rushdown character like Wulf. Similar to Thunder, in a way, you want to get close to win and that’s the issue, that’s where they are stronger. Raam has tools to get the pressure out of him, with ranged normals, nice normal AA and special moves for it too. He hits really hard…And with instinct included may be GGs.
You can use overpower to whiff punishments. You can try your low ranged normals on your approach and AA whenever he tries to jump at you. If he runs (QCB + K) you can throw it out of it unless he cancels it.
Honestly I need more work in this MU (like many other ones!) but patience is also key here. Bait coomand grabs, watch out for his reach in those, back dash and punish. His knife attack isn’t that possitive (I think the heavy one is the less unsafe) so expect them to to something after that if they don’t go for blocking.
If you are in the ground start praying!..Nah, just break his medium/light kick stomp or neutral jump/shadow eclipse/ back dash if not in the corner triying to get away. But is pretty much a guess.

Hisako: OH- MY - GOSH :rage:

5-5 only when she’s not over you. If you are in the ground GGs with all the guessing.
If you get a hard knock down pressure her to death. Don’t be too close since she can wake up command grab which is fast as light itself (ok…maybe not that much, but you get the idea).
Learn to break some of her stuff using audio cues on her voice. Learn to break her shadow in different timings. If you have Godlike reactions stop her rekkas when they are overhead or low hits (you can interrupt those) audio helps.
Don’t wake up shadow eclipse unless she is in the air.
Jump neutral or forward when she does her rekkas and makes you thinks she’s negative because if she has shadow the player may go for s.command grab or the shadow rekkas.
Don’t go happy shadow countering!! AT ALL. Her wrath bar makes it a very bad choice since she can parry you after it. And since we aren’t super humans that can see the whole screen all the time (we even get caught by instinct cancels that are way more trackable that the wrath bar) try to avoid this unless you know Sako by heart and you can tell “ooh, she went too far with her wrath attacks so now I can shadow counter the heck out of her”.
Your Instinct is precious in this MU. Because now you have a chance to bait a parry from her whith your cancels. But sadly, it’s not something as strong as her instinct, that gives her so much counterhit stunt that the Hisako player can go, take a coffe, check their e-mail and comeback to confirm their combo :relaxed:.
Hold up when you are getting hit in a combo. You will be able to escape command grab resets. However this will give the Sako player a hint for going into recapture resets with the overhead.

I think the only Wulfs that can beat her at hight level play is because they used the character themselves or fought lots of fights with high level Sakos. Not an easy mu at all, but she’s in a good spot right now.

Eyedol: "for the power of grayskul!l"
His zoning is strong. It’s more a reactions fight than everything else. You can shadow counter him but using pressure against his Warrior stance is a bit harder. Still need to play this MU more.

Tusk: The guy with a cool tatoo who loves to show it off

Use your speed to catch him. Watch out for his long ranged stagger normals. He has a great AA. Punish his dash forward (even he can cancel it into overhead you can hit him before that). For AA when he’s neutral jumping close at you I suggest Heavy Eclipse. I can trust it. Be patient on the approach, his jump MP is no joke. Running upercut can be good for whiff punishes same as hammstring, helping you to get in. His deflects are still strong and can stop even Wulf’s shadows.
This is another fight I find annoying with the Wulf…but I’m guessing is 5-5…Or maybe slightly in Tusk’s favor.


Ok, these ones are what I consider harder for Wulf. Being the first ones the most difficult in no particular order.

PS: Forgive my typo and grammar mistakes :sweat:. English isn’t my native language.

More hints or everything are appreciated =)

Cheers

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Dude I couldnt have asked for better input on this. You totally knocked it out of the park and answered all of my would be questions, THEM SOME. You really hit home with that Hisako explanation by the way, because I played NWO Negga Scott last night, and got COMPLETELY DESTROYED by his hisako. Even with the understanding you’ve given me, I’m still going to be deathly afraid of this fight from now on! You Have got to be one of the coolest people out there for sharing this precious info for our MU’s. Thank you so much. And Im heading into the lab to see what I can find right now lol

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No problem =) I told you I was interested but I had to find the right time to sit down and write all that XD

BTW, there are many persons in the forums that will give advice to help.

This is something I was wanting to do since a long time now, I do love my main. I don’t know if I have enough level to talk much about this, but at least based on what I can find it doesn’t hurt to try.

About Hisako, don’t be afraid of her. Just don’t let the Sako player bully you and get into your head. I don’t want my problem with the match up become yours. Just face her with a better mind state than mine which is full of “not this character agaaaaiiiin” thinking and makes me want to stop playing just because I don’t enjoy the match. Think positive, and take it as a challenge =D

And by the way, here I’ve uploaded a fight I had with a guy trying to counter pick me. I’ve fought his Jago before (a MU I prefer a lot over Kan Ra).

With this person taunting and teabagginx me the whole match, the moment I got the lead I was not interested to go after him. When I lost my green bar for trying that (very annoyed by this match up) I decided to wait for the right moment that’s why I saved my instinct.
I activated instinct to make the screen frezze and decide what to do but got a “failed cancel” instead of shadow leaping slash when trying to go for a punish (I got that sudden instinct cancel out of a bad inputs in my fighstick). But then I saw him running away and supposed he was going to use the projectile, so I run into him and use the anti projectile recapture move (very, VERY useful in this MU).

What came afterwards is salt =)

OH MY GOD HAHA!! I KNOW THAT GUY. He is a jerk if I’ve ever seen one. Seeing him rage quit fills me with pride! Congrats on that kill! By the way, I learned a nifty trick today. One i’m sure you know already but here goes just in case lol. When we condition our opponents to expect a grab whether on reset or wakeup, we can use st. HK to ever so slightly move our hit box a little, and punish their throw attempt. The spacings a little touchy, BUT, it is sooooooo beautiful when it works out and you get rewarded for it.

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