Ice Lance is an opener.
The “incomplete” list of opener command normals on ki.infil.net has it
The only ones that are missing that I can think of are shago axe kick and tusk deflect normals
I posted kinda quick and wasnt thinking clearly. World came crashing down yesterday… And I’m done this time around… Don’t waste your life chasing dreams… They just turn into nightmares. I’m out
To be fair towards the OP there are some target combos that are counted per hit in the combo system instead of simply 1 for the target combo.
Ie.
Sadira’s Mp,HK (6.HK is always an opener + a counterhit mp into mp,hk makes the hk breakable)
Aganos’ Peacemaker target combo ( the heavy at the end will always be breakable)
Kim Wu’s MP/HP Target combos ( Under normal circumstances it should not combo, however with a counterhit mp you can go into HP TC into MP TC and have the mp breakable.);
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WOW! SO really I had nothing to worry about until the light linker? Or the shadow leap?
Man there is so much to learn about this game and there is new stuff for everyone daily.
It’s important that people call it a “3-move rule”, not a “3-hit rule”. Definitely there is no such 3-hit rule, in terms of like… the combo counter going up by 3 and making the combo breakable. As has been mentioned, there are dozens of shadows, multi-hitting specials, and multi-hitting normals that just count as one move for breakability.
In general, the rule is “if you are canceling a normal into another normal, that counts as one move”. So things like Wulf target combo, Cinder target combo, everybody who can chain a jab or short together, etc… all these things are just “one move”. You either need to cancel into a special move OR go back to neutral and link another normal for it to count as another distinct move. If you like, you can think about Hisako/Orchid rekkas as the same thing, kind of a “target combo but with special moves” if that helps you make the connection. Those always count as one total move.
Of course, because this is a fighting game, there are exceptions to this rule (Aganos stomps/peacemaker stuff being the main exception). But this rule of thumb is good enough to cover 95% of cases.
As far as, like… the game explaining it to players via a tutorial, I think it’s way too advanced of a subject matter for them to even attempt it (not to mention that this wasn’t a rule in KI S1, when the dojo was made). There are just some advanced things about any given video game that you will have to do research/look up on your own, and this rule is not so fundamental to the game that it needs to be taught to beginners.
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I like that explanation…thanks. Its starting to make sense now, for me anyways, and I also like how Storm explained that you wont get a lock out on it either. That helps as well.
Yes, you cannot generate lockouts until a breakable part of the combo has started. You can mash to your heart’s content and if the sequence is unbreakable, nothing happens. Although, if he transitions into a linker or a delayed manual as his first breakable part, you’re probably going to timing lockout here if you’re mashing.
Also, for completeness, in the past there have been unbreakable hits that caused timing lockouts if you tried to break, but those were generally bugs and as far as I can think, nothing like that is still in the game.
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Do you think Omen could do this same combo with his fwd HP?
Hit confirm, fwd HP, Shadow kicks, linker, ender? Of course I can test it to find out, but just curious if you think it would work from your knowledge of the game.
Sure that’ll work just fine.
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ANd there is no gap in between fwd HP that could be DPd through or anything advanced? fwd HP just feels so slow on start up (in my mind anyways). thanks for the help, IM going to test it out here in a bit.
Its so cool how you can stumble upon something in the game that beats you, come to the forums, start a discussion and come out of it with more knowledge and possibly even using the sequence that was beating you in the first place. Awesome
There is no gap between the two hits of 6HP but it can be shadow countered of course.
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So is Rash getting screwed out of this? His HP>jab>shadow is breakable.
With Rash, I think his LP and LK in certain circumstances are tagged to become openers. You can mash either one raw and the first hit is a hit, but the second one is actually tagged as an opener, and following hits are manuals.
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Just tested it with a different normal, the shadow move is still breakable if it’s the third move. Decided to check Jago, shadow move is also still breakable if it’s the third move regardless of what combination of normals I use beforehand. Checked Wulf. Hit confirming into Target combo into leaping slash is breakable. Idk what’s going on anymore.
What did you test exactly? What sequence?
I tested Omen and the CPU wont break until after the shadow kicks. But… the gap between the hit confirm and Fwd HP is so huge it doesnt count as a combo. None of Omens normals cancel into fwd HP quick enough for this to really work how Wulf does it.
Now his Slide or Kick openers cancel more fluidly into fwd HP but it resets the combo counter, which is fine I guess.
So here is what I found to work best…
Light slide> Fwd HP> Shadow Kicks> Light Slide> Ender (Light slide is breakable)
Cool, but when Wulf does it it just looks and feel like its much longer and that you are getting hit some many times that you should have been able to break somewhere… and that’s what felt frustrating to me before I found out what was going on.
** Another part I found cool is instead of putting the breakable linker into the combo, if you have meter, use shadow form to crossover, air HP, fwd HP, Shadow kick, linker, ender. Basically do the combo twice and there is no break pint until the light slide the 2nd time around. You have to have all 3 meters filled, which is easily in lab, but is still doable in a match from time to time.
Figured it out. If Wulf chains into the Target combo then the shadow move after will be unbreakable, if Wulf links into the Target combo then the shadow move will be breakable. It’s a pretty random distinction Imo.
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If you chain it it’s a target combo and counts as one thing, whereas if you link a button that’s clearly two things, that’s kind of the whole point of this thread.
Yeah I was going to suggest it was the linking vs chaining thing.
Returning to neutral (and linking your next move) is the main thing that will cause the “move counter” to go up 1, even if you could have also done the combo via a chain. So it kind of feels random but there’s a reason behind it, since returning to neutral seems like a pretty good way to determine when a “new move” has started.