Whats up with S3 Sabrewulf?

[ZDhome]

So i have been trying to learn every character, and right now i am on Sabrewulf.

He feels a little “Off” to me.

• A lot of his hitboxes make moves miss when it looks like they should hit, mainly eclipse and his Heavy swipe during a run.
• His normals and throw seem to be crazy small compared to most of the new cast, i find him very hard to play footsies with, even though he used to be one of the best footsie characters in the game.
• His Run moves and his Heavy Ragged edge arent as good at counter-hits as (i think) they should be. Against the Season 3 cast, it really feels like running or using Ragged edge just guarantees i get combo’d.
• His stagger HK seems useless considering they can just tech the throw with easy reaction.
• His flip-out is cool, but it seems like Sabrewulf should benefit from it MORE than the majority of the cast. Right now it feels very average, which isnt a great reward for staying close to your opponent.
• With more characters having moves that cover the entire screen, or launch you the entire screen, staying in with Sabrewulf feels very difficult, and i find myself fighting against zoning tool way more than i should (I think)
• (I cant really attest to this myself, but his dash-through is apparently only good online, not offline, which make me feel like using it is kind of cheesy.)
• I find it strange that i haven’t seen him in the pro scene much. I cant even remember the last time he had an impact, and he AT LEAST definitely isnt as popular as he used to be.

So whats going on? This is NOT a complaint list, just a list of questions i would like opinions on. Am i crazy? Getting the feelings of FUN and DOMINANCE out of playing Sabrewulf just seems very hard right now.

Is everyone else feeling this? Is there some crazy tech / strategy im just missing? Any Sabrewulf mains out there that feels the same way?

(One final point: The Rash matchup seems exceptionally strange. Rash is almost a mirror image of sabrewulf but better in every way! Rash has 90% of the tools that Sabrewulf has, but even more on top!)

[Skryba]

Humm, lemme see if I can address some of these points:

• eclipse hasn’t had an especially great hitbox for some time now, and running uppercut is kinda short. They’re still good though.
• his normals are far from small, c.HP and overpower have amazing reach, and c.MP and s.HP go pretty far as well. C.LK and c.MK have solid range for pokes with great frame data as well. His throw range is pretty good as well, especially taking into account his walk speed. You just seem to need more habit in spacing with him.
• running uppercut and heavy ragged edge are footsies tools best used to punish whiffs, not to try and net CHs. If you want CH’s and cutting through your opponent’s attacks go for overpower and c.HP a lot.
• about his s.HK stagger, I’m not sure what you mean by “the opponent can tech the throw”. You can combo basically whatever you want after hitting a s.HK, but you should mainly go for overpower > ragged edge to go into a combo. Not only is the move not useless at all, it’s amazing at both a Meaty to punish people trying to tech throws and net huge damage but it’s also a really good footsies tool. Use it to force whiffs on your opponent and punish, it hides wulf’s hurt box quite a bit during startup and then lunges forward for the bite. You just need to space and time it properly.
• also not sure why you say he should benefit more from flip out, or how you’d propose this. He gets a throw/high-low/left-right mix-up after flip out. Only thing he doesn’t have is a command throw, otherwise it could hardly get any better ^^’
• going through zoners with wulf was always a chore, and it’s actually better now, with his dive kick to help navigate around obstacles and take better advantage of neutral jumps.
• his dash through is far from a gimmick. Unless you get super predictable with it, it’s a totally legit mix-up tool. On ok pressure, it’s really good, mid neutral pressure, after a blocked overpower it keeps your opponent on his toes.
• he’s not as popular because now he isn’t as easy to play and doesn’t have a free 50/50 after pressure. Still really good though, IMO.

As for the rash comparison, honestly I don’t see it at all. Rash is really different in basically every aspect, don’t know why you feel this way. Wulf’s overpower and c.LK and c.MK give him amazing frame advantage pressure that rash doesn’t have (unless I’m not aware he does? XD), his dash give him a unique crossup tool to open his opponent and his instinct allows his to go bonkers with safe pressure, a huge movement tool in hamstring > Feral cancel that is also an opener that has frame advantage, and gives him incredibly hard to break combos. Rash may have really good normals, great movement (although his movement is mostly aerial and not grounded) and good offense, but his playstyle is completely different, IMO.

[STORM179]

Most of your issues strike me as inaccurate readings of Wulf’s toolbox, or an underappreciation for just how good some of these tools actually are.

@ZDhome

A lot of his hitboxes make moves miss when it looks like they should hit, mainly eclipse and his Heavy swipe during a run.

Eclipse doesn’t have a super horizontal hitbox, but it strikes at a pretty decent range around him. You shouldn’t be missing with it unless you’re pretty far away from your target. Run’s heavy swipe attack stops Wulf more or less in place - just time it to come out slightly later and it’ll hit fine.

@ZDhome

His normals and throw seem to be crazy small compared to most of the new cast, i find him very hard to play footsies with, even though he used to be one of the best footsie characters in the game

Nonsense. Wulf has one of the farthest reaching throws in the game. He also still has some of the best low pokes in KI, and several of his kick normals have fantastic frame advantage. The S3 characters have better absolute range buttons, but Wulf is still one of the better footsie characters in the cast.

@ZDhome

His Run moves and his Heavy Ragged edge arent as good at counter-hits as (i think) they should be. Against the Season 3 cast, it really feels like running or using Ragged edge just guarantees i get combo’d

You shouldn’t be trying to counter hit with most of these moves, particularly not heavy ragged edge. And heavy specials are generally pretty negative on block - you’re pretty much asking to be punished if you don’t open them up.

@ZDhome

His stagger HK seems useless considering they can just tech the throw with easy reaction.

That’s like saying a wall splat is useless because you can tech the throw after. Worse, actually, since Wulf can just straight up begin a combo in this scenario with no mixup or reset required. Wulf has a ton of options after stagger - use them more effectively.

@ZDhome

His flip-out is cool, but it seems like Sabrewulf should benefit from it MORE than the majority of the cast.

You get a left/right/high/low/throw mixup after flipout - what more do you want?

@ZDhome

With more characters having moves that cover the entire screen, or launch you the entire screen, staying in with Sabrewulf feels very difficult,

Use his divekick. Has almost no recovery on whiff and covers a good amount of horizontal space. Is also good for mixups on knockdown.

@ZDhome

…his dash-through is apparently only good online, not offline

Players say this sometimes, and it’s as invalid now as it always was. You’re not going to open someone up every time you do a dash through, but it’s a good mixup offline as well. People still get hit with it at high level in tournament, just like they get hit by a judiciously used Riptor tail flip or Sadira cross-up.

Wulf is definitely not as popular as he used to be. He has to work a lot harder to get good damage now, and his instinct isn’t an automatic hit into some unbreakable combo for obscene damage anymore. He’s kind of like TJ, where people mostly seem to resent having to be thoughtful on offense or defense and dropped him for that reason. But he’s still a very dangerous character in the right hands.