Guys, I’m curious if someone could help me to understand, what exactly justify this damage outpout aswel in ender and in raw it deal so much for free,

ALSO Remember that He can juggle after it and I don’t remember have seen any juggles characters in this game with a 20% free Opener.

**I remember sadira shadow recluse was nerfed because of the juggles following up **, so why he still can get this free 20% opener ? then juggles after it?

H E L P. :confounded: im confuse.

I could understand it when he does not have juggles systems but now things are others with this juggles.

It’s considered an ender so it’s going to do pretty good damage all on it’s own.

As far as justifying it?

  • If Thunder whiffs it, a good portion of the cast can normal > shadow opener > one chance to ender for easily the amount of damage he would have gotten if he hit.

  • If you haven’t evaded it before the screen freeze, you’re boned. But if you can read where and when your opponent wants it, and even the range where it works, it’s avoidable.

  • Thunder, in terms of juggling, is very limited when you compare him to a Rash, Sadira, Maya and so forth. He can do it, but he’s usually doing it to set you up for your next wakeup. Thats the job of the individual followups youll see from his DP juggles. Plus, it’s not uncommon to not juggle after the grab and just use Call of Sky.

  • Having said all that, I’m fine for the most part with it. Thunder hits hard. Supposed to. I think he was the highest unbugged damage output character through S1 and fairly up there through S2. I like him having a range where you gotta say to yourself “I’m flirting with a boot to the face.”


The only time I feel negative about SCotE is it being performed right after flipout. It seems like even IF I’m holding up, I still get murdered by it.

But I do agree that Thunder NEEDS his damage. Several characters in the game can zone him to death, and he’s not super agile, so it takes work for him to get in.

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It does kind of break the rules by being a damage ender, a launcher ender, and a hard knockdown ender at the same time. They specifically made a point of removing multiple utilities from other enders in the game. But now that he needs meter for invincible wake up again I don’t mind him spending it elsewhere so that he’s easy to bully on wake up, especially after the nerfs last patch.

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That’s not really true as there are multiple shadow enders which provide several benefits. Puddle punch, shatter, fireflash, crushing destroyer, vortex, uppercat, eclipse, skeleport, recluse, sammamish, clever girl, mighty spirit (Tusk?) and [Kilgore’s shadow DP] all allow aerial follow ups for no extra cost ("…because you can juggle after it!"). There are several others which offer additional benefits or extra benefits with resources, such as dragon kick and big bad boot.

There are also regular enders which have multiple utilities. When ender utility was addressed with Thunder at the start of season 3, they removed the hard knockdowns from cote and ankle slicer, but left it on sammamish which is now both his launcher and hard knockdown ender.


Thunder is a striker/grappler hybrid. He’s suppose to hit harder than most. I don’t think him juggling after cote is a problem. Him getting a flipout is more what I worry about.

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Yeah, flip out into shadow cote is the bane of my existence. At least when I play a good Thunder.

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“he’s not super agile”?

Uppercut follow up xx instinct.

No matter how good you zone him. As soon as he has the instinct cancel and the invincible forward dash available, he is extremely hard to zone and super duper agile.
He has a great forward dash even without invincibility.
The only thing that really sucks for him movement wise is is super floaty jump.