What do you think about this idea of Kryll Finger as a low-damage projectile?

Characters General RAAM
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Looking at footage of the RAAM’s Shadow DLC for GoW 3 shows his main ability to be the Kryll Finger; A move in which he points at a spot and Kryll rush from his side to that spot.

Now, I didn’t know RAAM was playable in Shadow, and I had always thought giving him a projectile would help his game a lot more. Would make intense projectile usage and long range zoning much less of a problem for him, as he has an intense time getting in on characters with these playstyles.

Now, specifically, I was thinking it would work like this:

Upon activation, RAAM points towards a direction: L is straight ahead that takes about 4 seconds to go cross-screen, M is a faster version of L that takes about 2 with more startup, and H is an anti-air variation at an angle. These do very little damage, about 2-3% on hit. Shadow version is a wall of Kryll the size of RAAM that can be jumped over but has little area to do so. Ender variant sends them flying about half-map, approximately the length of M Kryll Rush. Only Ender and Shadow versions apply Kryll Poison.

These have a couple of advantages: Of course, the ender and Shadow variants applying Kryll is one, but also that if the Kryll make contact with a basic projectile (Endokouken, Ice Shard, Riptor Mortar etc.) they are destroyed along with the Kryll. Also, hitting an opponent in the air causes a soft knockdown (L, M) or a hard knockdown (H) that allows mixups and grab opportunities for RAAM to take advantage of.

Projectiles are destroyed if RAAM is hit, and he keeps a pointing animation until the Kryll are gone from the screen, leaving him at a disadvantage if he attempts to consistently use it to no avail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zSwneLi1Vk

For reference of the ability.

So what do you guys think about this? I think it’d help his game a bit more without breaking him too much.

3 Likes
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That’s a more detailed version of what I’ve been saying in other threads but instead of being hit by it like a regular projectile it would act like Miras vampire mist and deal slow poison damage so that you can’t shoot those things out like you would if you were shago but instead it would cause your opponent to come to you.

2 Likes
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Neat idea, but he doesn’t need it. Hard zoning is the grapplers traditional weakness, and he’s got plenty kit to counterplay dedicated zoning without subverting his intended weakness to it.

If there were some sort of catch, maybe I’d be interested, but a lingering fireball is out of the question in my book. Maybe if it DIDN’T destroy projectiles, or linger, or deal hitstun, or have an AA variant (of which you describe to be strictly better than his reversal, invincibility aside)… but yeah, I see no point other than to subvert the intended, traditional weakness of our “traditional” grappler.

I do like your acknowledgement of the necessity of weakness, with the pointing taking forever thing… but even that seems kind of extreme to me. I would love a way to apply Kryll without having to lay hands first, don’t get me wrong, I just can’t fathom how it would be achieved.

I would recommend practicing FADC instead.

It might be cool if we could project the Kryll from the FA though… but I really don’t see something like this ever happening, so I’m hesitant to entertain it with brainpower.

(these are just my opinions, not trying to put you on blast)

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If this were to be given to RAAM you’d be taking away his only really hard matchups and making him all that much more well rounded. For this to happen, he’d have to lose some of his power up close, get tools nerfed, lose stuff, etc, otherwise it’d be too strong.

That’d basically be you taking the only true grappler you have in KI and turning him into another mixed archetype.

IMO, RAAM is fine as he is, in terms of tools. Like every other true grappler he has difficulties counteracting hard zoning, but has the tools he needs to get around it if played correctly and with patience. That’s the way he should work, IMO. You shouldn’t try to take away his weaknesses, they are also part of what makes him a true grappler.

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I support your idea, but you have got to use more punctuation. :sweat_smile:

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Sorry about that lol, I’m usually always on mobile and limit myself to small sentences just because it gets annoying.

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This might make him too strong as he wouldn’t really have any bad match ups and this would make it even harder for the characters who can already have a tough time fighting Raam.

1 Like
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Dealing damage seems like it would just patch up a traditional grappler weakness (giving him ranged damage).

However, maybe it could work like Glacius’s shatter. He has a long-range version, a mid-range version, and a close version. It summons a cloud of kryll that lingers for a few seconds, but they only do potential damage, and only while the enemy is standing in it. That way, the move functions as a way to force the opponent to move rather than as a way to conduct offense from a distance.

Or maybe the cloud could just disable the ability to use special moves while the opponent is standing inside it.

1 Like
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Something like Grundy’s Swamp Hands. Don’t need to do any damage at all, just lock the enemy movement for some seconds.

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If there is any way I’d get behind a “projectile” idea for RAAM it’d have to be something like this.

Give it no actual hitbox, just an area of effect where the opponent gets continuous potential dmg as long as he stands within range. Small AOE, slow building potential damage.

That being said, I find it unnecessary.

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Not sure that solves any of Raam’s bad matchups.

Presumably, it will go away after Raam gets hit, so if Raam can never get in, then the opponent will just continue to zone him, eventually hit Raam so the kryll goes away, and then sit on his potential life (ie, keep zoning) until it heals. Potential damage from long range is not really that scary, especially if the opponent has no mobility like Raam, so it doesn’t really force the opponent out of his comfort zone.

I mean… I suppose Raam could just try to block forever, letting the opponent’s entire health bar turn to potential, but a) that makes for a boring match and b) the opponent just has to adjust spacing a bit so he’s not standing in the poison. You also can’t make the poison cover too big of a range for obvious reasons.

Also, you’d have to consider what this would do to Raam’s offensive game. Cause a knockdown, activate instinct, and then put a poison swarm on top of the character’s body too? One chance into 80% damage or something? Raam could probably instinct cancel on reaction to a lockout, put a poison up, then keep the combo going?

I understand you want to give Raam ways around his bad matchups but I think they have to exist or else Raam just dunks the whole cast.

3 Likes
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I meant the move would do direct red damage, not potential. That’s why I implied it as a “low damage projectile”, that disappears on hit and has a long animation, but destroys a single projectile per use and causes knockdown on airborne opponents so people can’t just kick him in a corner with projectiles and jump when he gets close.

Especially Maya, who can jump and backdash until she can just consistently reuse her blades. Attempting to get in with RAAM against her is near useless, as her mobility keeps him out very effectively.

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You shouldn’t try to get in on Maya, you need to force her to come to you. Just use heavy emergence against her daggers, they’ll fly right through you to the opposite end of the stage leaving Maya empty handed with a 10ft locust between her and her daggers.

2 Likes
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So you want to give Kan-Ra’s swarm to Raam that can be summoned at a distance like Glacius shatter? That seems… pretty good.

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We’re lookin at two different posts here yo

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I just literally don’t know how you want the move to work. You want it to be a projectile he can summon at one of 3 places on the screen that does real damage, stops people from jumping, and absorbs projectiles? This is a strong projectile for any character, let alone a grappler. Or do you want something different?

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Yeah, you’re making some sense. To me, the matchup that needs addressing is RAAM v Gargos. Because of the tools Gargos has, it’s excruciatingly boring and exceedingly difficult for RAAM to seize offense, successfully.

But really, the only thing I think needs to happen to bring that matchup into reasonable territory is allowing the emergence hitbox to extend high enough to catch Gargos over head.

1 Like
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You’re looking at Skryba’s, not my initial opening post. Wrong one man.

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Only just saw this ^^

I don’t think infil was looking at my post, though, when he answered xD why do you think he was?