no progress on this actually happens until someone has direct input for women actually interested in trying out games in the first place.
^ graph shows % of women participating in the Olympics over time.
So, the world of athletics clearly found a way to get participation from something that was incredibly dismal even as close as 1990- yet is now on its way to parity. Clearly, something went really freakingâ right there.
The answer at least for the US was mandated parity (Title IX) for young women athletic programs in all gov-funded educational institutions. Participation skyrocketed as a result.
In Chile they had a all-women MK9 tournament. It was kinda awkward, but got participation regardless. An all-women (except for the people running the tournament and commentatingâŠ) MK9 tournament. It was kewl.
IANAW, but there appears to be super strong precedent for increasing participation by having separate leagues, and mandating their existence.
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Itâs an interesting supposition. But look at your graph. Title IX was passed into law in 1972 and truly came into force in the late 1970s. While it looks like there is a minor bump in the percentage of women athletes during that approximate time, thereâs actually no way that women benefitting from athletic programs as a result of title IX would have been able to move into the olymlics as a result of their experience that quickly. I would guess that similar social pressures led to an increased number of womenâs sorts being featured at the Olympics during the same time. Which gets to my point. Title IX (which was not about sports at all when it was written) is more a reflection of a changing social standard than a driver of that standard. It simply continues the trend you see in the graph, it doesnât radically alter it. Like all federally mandated social programs it has a pretty mixed record. Inarguably it has increased funding for womenâs collegiate sports overall, but it has also killed a lot of menâs athletic programs, particularly at smaller colleges and universities.
Anyway, the difference is that in athletic programs women and men donât compete against each other. So far, at least, in the FGC they do. Although Iâm not personally opposed to women only tournaments, it does beg the question âwhy?â It may well increase the number of female participants. But wouldnât it also establish that there is a separate womenâs league? And if women can compete at Evo and any tournament involving men, then how can you exclude men from a womenâs tournament? Especially if you start offering prizes. It gets messy.
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This is true but when you do say something it rarely leads to an actual conversation. Any person in a chat or message board that calls people out on the childishly sexist comments and remarks typically just get called âSJWâ or âWhite Knightâ then it just devolves into two groups of people hurling insults at each other lol
I agree though. I always try to call out sh** like that when I see it, but like I said, I donât think it ever does any good lol
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I sorta meant in personâŠ
The internet is a different beast active moderation and flagging bad behavior⊠Is best.(I guess?)
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At the very least, having people know that their bullshit will be met with friction is better than letting them have free reign.
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Personally, I feel women will come into the FGC is when games that interest them are available. Usually, Competitive fighting is not a subject that really gravitates women as a whole, but from what I observed, by far the largest women participants is found in the Smash community. The game is approachable to them, available, and has appealing (recognizable) characters. Nintendo also see similar success with both boys and girls in the Pokemon Franchise. Even though at itâs core, it is monster fighting monster, there is enough âfluffâ to do in the game, appealing esthetics, and able to reach it audience though advertisements, social media and cartoon. For a fighting game to be attractive to both genders, we need to think beyond worrying about where a character is over-sexiualized or not.
When they told me about this I was kind of âsurpisedâ, I donât get the idea of making gender aside tourneys, their answer was âso they could measure who was better between themâ. I donât know, it annoys me in some way. But I see what they were doing.
Thatâs why they prefer simulators like The sims. Mans are competitive among themselves, in general aspects we achieve the sensation of accomplishment when we overwhelm our enemies, women in the other hand get it when they fell they rise something successfully (can be a char, an empire, a family) or discover things at the game lore (side histories, relationship of persons, etc). Of course there are exceptions, but this sumarize why women usually do not want to get involved with extremely competitive genres like fighting/shooters.
Arguably the best character in the game is female soooooo yeah
Exactly, this is why I feel topics like âWhat can be done to make women feel more included in the FGC?â is irrelevent. Its like a women asking how to get more men into ballet. Of course there is men that are into it, but not by the majority.
I think itâs also a good topic to stem other subliminal discussions. Think about it. This post has allowed us to express an opinion we otherwise, may not ever bring up. Also, it let one of our members @MaruMDQ (sorry for putting you on the spot) feel comfortable explaining her perspective.
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Nothing. An average woman is much less competitive than an average man by nature. You donât rectify this with character design, itâs just the way things are. FGs are one of the most competitive games there is, and the genre is not really mainstream, at least in the traditional sense. I remember there was an anonymous survey of dota 2 players, only 3% (out of 35000 or something) were female, the game is also very competitive.
And Overwatch is a type of game that can be still fun when played on a very low level. Especially now, when quick play is at its most casual after they added ranked. You can put a literal toddler to play the game and he might even be useful after some training. Almost every hero has a BIG RED BUTTON that resets on its own and can be used to destroy the enemy team on its own.
In FGs, you will just consistently stomped, which is not fun at all. You need to git gud in order to have fun, you have to earn your fun.
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I think they sometimes do this with chess as well. There will be a standard league where anyone can compete, and a womenâs only one. I think the logic is that, because thereâs been generations of men being the only ones we assume can play, theyâve got a head start that some women might find intimidating, so a separate league is a way to encourage them to play without worrying about that, without preventing them from also playing with men if they want to.
It seems to work, but I can understand why not everyone likes that system.
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I might have misspoke earlier. I wasnât thinking so much âhow do we get more women interested who arenât currentlyâ, as I was âHow do we make sure women who might have / currently have an interest in fighting games feel more comfortable and accepted in the communityâ.
Agreed, despite the great female players amongst our community, the truth is they are without a doubt the minority. I would even go as far to say about 1/8 of out community has female players.
Though, it may come as a shocker that nearly 48% of gamers are female. But, that also include mobile games like Candy Crush or Bejewled.
As underrated as KI is and because of its exclusivity, it is only natural that we have even less females within our community.
I can also vouch for the competitiveness deterring many away.
Edit: Iâd like to add that I donât necessarily agree with the obvious generalization that woman are less competitive than males on average.
This is faulty logic in a lot of ways. One of the most obvious is that, although the âaverageâ woman may not be into competitive fighting games, the âaverageâ man isnât either.
No, we are all the minority because we play fighting games. Even if you look at the subpopulation of active, hardcore gamers the FGC is still a niche group. We donât need to turn every woman in the world into a fighting game player. And all those men arenât avoiding fighting games because they arenât competitive. So why is it that we explain womenâs absence from the FGC this way?
And, frankly, itâs a completely unsupported myth that women are not competitive. Have you met any women? They are not in any way less competitive than men AT ALL. They just tend to express their competitive nature in different ways, but that shouldnât be confused with lack of competitiveness. It has nothing to do with their competitive nature. Scrabble is competitive, but women play it in droves. People need to stop propping up their caveman beliefs with â â â â â â â â â Women donât like conflict (people declare, with no justification). Women donât like competition (people declare, with no justification). But somehow there manages to be a womenâs league in the UFC. I think we can probably make the FGC a bit more welcoming and see what happens.
PokĂ©mon Go is a competitive game. And women are playing it. You guys are one step away from âthe womanly physiology is built for child bearing and might be damaged by the high stress environment of fighting games.â
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First off, I want to say I value where youâre coming from and donât aim to discredit your point. That said, I do feel as if you took what I said completely out of context and feel the need to elaborate on my end while also defending my own thoughts that I shared earlier.
This statement is slightly confusing to me. Clearly, the FGC is the minority in comparison to shooters and other gaming genres, but that was never my argument, so as to why you are going on a tangent is beyond me. My point is that in Killer Instinct, females are a minority. That isnât an opinion or a baseless statement, it is a fact. On the forums alone there are more males than females, at majors, there are generally more males. So undoubtedly, females are the minority when mentioning Killer Instinct.
That isnât an insult or a complaint, a few years ago being a gamer at all wasnât all that common, now itâs a lifestyle that allows for all types of people around all ages and thatâs beautiful. Hell, when I was young being a gamer all-together was looked down upon. So just seeing its growth in America alone in a variety of ways is simply outstanding.
I have never, nor will I ever argue this. Which is why I feel insulted that my words may have somehow been twisted to be perceived as something I would never utter. When I said I can vouch for competitiveness deterring many away, I spoke for two people. Myself, a male and @oDragonSpirit, a female. That is to say that competitiveness isnât exclusively tied to a woman as much as it would be for men. I just meant it for some people in general like me and my girlfriend had to let go of games because they had a very difficult learning curve just like Dragon let go of KI for that very reason.
We do this by doing what we do even better; think, speak, and act rationally despite any circumstance. I donât know but somehow I feel as if singling people out for who they are despite it being for a good cause can leave a bad impression. I think we have a great community albeit, we can work on better communication and learn how to becoming more welcoming all-together. I donât mean that in this situation, just in general as sometimes I noticed the forums can sometimes become volatile.
I donât think we need banners and flashy signs saying âWOMEN ARE WELCOMED!â, not saying that is what you mean, just the thought. As it can make anyone uncomfortable for being welcomed any differently because of whom they are. I just think we can be better as a whole to show female gamers that our community is good, if not, better than some of the other communities who discredit them or single them out. Basically giving them a safe environment so they can freely express themselves without the risk of being judged would be wonderful.
Again, please, donât twist my words and drag them through the muck to create a loathsome image of me. I would never, condone such values in my lifestyle, so I donât like treated as if I did because you misinterpreted my point. I grew up where my mother achieved the highest level of education (Doctorates Degree) and where my father wasnât able to even attend high school. As much as I see my mother as a⊠well mother, I also see her as a strong independent woman capable of accomplishing anything despite living the world where she was clearly competing with males because of Americaâs historical and delusional way of thinking.
Iâm in no way trying to âattackâ you. I just want to be clear on my stance and defend what you may have misunderstood from the short reply that I made earlier. I apologize for even remotely sounding like a bigoted and uninformed jerk in that reply. It was never my intent to portray myself in such a way as much as I was trying to agree with not treating females differently and that female gamers are the minority in our community.
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What has this thread become? First it was how to make Women welcome. Now it became âWomen are not as _____ as menâ along with some misunderstandings lol.
UploadingâŠ
Personally,KI is a niche game in a niche genre makes it very hard for anyone to get into. I am going off observation here. Fighting games are mostly men right now. This results in a male filled community. Fighting games are pretty hard for new players to get into. A mostly male scene with not a ton of new people joining in will result in the scene staying the same. Again,it is not easy to get new players to join. I feel as if this is a more important issue. I will speak for a point of view from a younger side. My friends tend to come over a lot. Whenever they see me play KI,they watch. They know that at a high level,it is really amazing and a unique experience. However,when I try to teach them,it is much harder. They struggle even in dojo mode. As a result,they want to play something else. I let them try divekick and they find it fun. Now how does this relate to women? Simple. It applies to a lot of people. People think that fighting games are too hard to play at a level where they can enjoy. This discourages them. Not a great start correct? Now women have to deal with that along with the pressure of being a minority. Being discouraged because of the high learning curve and being in a minority makes it really tough to practice and get better. There isnât really an easy way to fix this. The two options. Make the game way more accessible. This is extremely tough due to the 1v1 nature. The other option is easier but less likely to happen because the community has to do it,not the developers. The community can respect the women not as women but fellow players. If everytime a female does well in a tournament,everyone goes âa female won (insert tournament)â that might make things worse. Instead,they should just look past that and see her as a good player. â(Insert player name) won (insert tournament)â is better. When a female sees the tournament and notices that everyone respects her as a player,it goes a long way. She is more likely to join and the obstacle of being in a minority is gone. She sees that the community respects everyone. Now she can focus on the difficulty aspect. I will just give a minority example(not women but age which I am using as an example). I am a 14 year old KI player. It isnât easy. I am scared of letting people know because of fear. I just didnât let people know. Suprisingly,it made no difference at all. Then a friend wanted me to teach him KI. He told me he was scared since he didnât want to be made fun of for his age. I told him of the experiance and it made a huge difference. Replace age with gender and the point still stands. Respect goes a long way. Not as a minority but as a player. The point is to pick Fulgore and ignore the people who say you are a tier â â â â â .
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I liked your comment. But I just wanted to point this out because I wanted to tell you that I didnât like this. I liked everything else though.
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