Wake up jump beats throws


#1

Is this right? No wonder why so much ppl wake up like this…
I’m trying to throw Tusk the moment he wakes up jumping and my throw goes right through him. I think I’ve read that Infil said jumps had 4 invincible frames pre jump?
That’s why I prefer meaties, if the oponnent jump is a free punish for them.


#2

It’s true. You can back dash out of a throw too.


#3

When you jump, it takes 5 frames for you to leave the ground, but you are totally throw invincible for these 5 frames. This is very important, because it gives you ways to escape command grabs while your opponent is at plus frames (where you can’t stuff it with an attack). And not every game has invincible backdashes to help you, so jumping is the “normal” way for you to avoid being thrown in pretty much every game.

So yes, if someone is holding up without attacking, you can never use a ground throw on them. You can even try this in training! Set the dummy to “jump” and then try to throw them… you won’t be able to.

To be clear, I say “without attacking” because if you attack during the air, you are vulnerable when you land for 4 frames (including to throws). You have probably heard this called “trip guard” before. However, if you don’t attack in the air, you can cancel these 4 landing frames into blocking or jumping.

This is why, if you don’t attack, you can block sweeps as soon as you land (hence the term “trip guard”); you cancel the recovery into blocking, and the sweep attack is too low to hit your jumping hitbox while you are in the air. And this is also why if you hold up without attacking, you can never be ground thrown… you are throw invincible during 5 frames of jump startup, can’t be ground thrown in the air (of course), and then the instant you land, you can immediately cancel back into jump, which has 5 frames of throw invincibility again, etc. This is why, if you ever see Arbiter do shadow command throw, you just hold up without attacking. He can never grab you if you do this.

Yes, if you predict your opponent will jump, then you can just attack them for free. As long as you hit them during those 5 frames before they leave the ground, they will stay on the ground and get hit for a full combo.


#4

Yeap,this is what I did before posting (I used Tusk as the dummy, because Tusks loves neutral jumping xD)
There was a discussion with Friends about escaping throws in SFV and they said they couldn’t escape from meaty throws and I was kind of O.o
I went to KI to check the differences. I also don’t see a lot of ppl backdashing grapplers in their wake up in that game.

So KI seems to have more options to escape during wake ups.


#5

I do it a lot fighting Storm179. It’s one of the only ways I have a chance of escape from his Oki.

(But since Kim’s jump is so floaty, he still AA’s me sometimes :sob: )


#6

I would NEVER

  • hides all the footage of me booping people with jump MP the whole match-

#7

Jumps in SFV are similar, you are throw invincible from the first frame of your jump. People who say they can’t escape from meaty throws are just being salty, lol.

Backdashing in SFV is only throw invincible as well (not fully invincible like KI), and if they decide to attack, it’s a crush counter (not just a regular hit), so it can be risky to backdash on wakeup in SFV unless you have a strong read.


#8

Back dashes in SFV can be crush countered? I thought they were just considered air borne for the duration of the backdash and you get flipped out if you get hit.


#9

Nah, they’re crush counter state. Feel free to test it in training.


#10

:smiling_imp:

And yeah, backdashes in SFV are crush counterable. I am fuzzy on whether you can ever get them with a grounded crush counter state while backdashing though. Normally I get the “ching” sound, but the opponent is spinning and I don’t get to follow up like I would if they’d just tried wakeup jab.

Could just be that my meaty timing is bollocks I suppose (because it really is in that game), but it hasn’t felt like it. If they backdash, I always seem to get the aerial crush counter state. :slightly_frowning_face: