Ultra David Tweeting about KI

Just because you don’t loose to something doesn’t mean you don’t like it. Besides these aren’t Pauls thoughts for the most part just his way of justifying his disdain for certain charecter playstyle and disdain in ki that isn’t exclusive to S3

Yeah, not great publicity.

I’m not wholly sure of what you’re getting at, though. In another thread you mention his tweets and the flak that Gargos is giving the game, as if it’s the game/devs/characters fault…

While I agree that UltraDavid’s tweets are not good for the games public image, I don’t think their existence is evidence of anything other than David having an opinion, and KI having some pretty extreme characters and traits (especially when compared to games without resource-free combo breaking mechanics). Certainly, some of his opinions are on-point, and may be addressed in Friday’s patch (specifically the one about Arby)… others kinda look like ■■■■-talk (namely Omen, and just use of the word “hate” - we all know the saying about strong words). Also, he expresses an enjoyment of simplicity/clarity (in Tusk and Mira), which lends implied disdain towards ambiguity/complexity (in Raam and Gargos)… He is a SF guy, afterall, so that can be taken with a grain of salt, if you will (no offense or shade on SF, it’s just very much a drier, simpler, more traditional RPS type of fighter).

I don’t quite know what I’m getting at… I’m guess I’m just making analytical observations and reading too much into a pile of tweets because I have nothing better to do right now.

But seriously, what is that YOU are getting at here?

((Not trying to be rude or argumentative, just askin’ for clarity)). :grin:

EDIT: Does Arby actually have a true auto-meaty grenade setup, or is David being hyperbolic and misguided in that part. Yeah, the gun damage, but auto-meaty?? If that’s not a thing, that’s kinda shady to be accusing designs of being cheap in ways that they actually aren’t. Misinformation is unnecessarily inflammatory.

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Believe me, everyone knows he doesn’t like S3 characters but losing to them would have been a better argument than “Hey look at this guy on Twitter, he says the same thing!” I am getting really tired of hearing/seeing posts like this. He is just sounding like a broken record.


I actually disagree that losing to them would make a better argument. Losing and complaining imply that you didn’t do what u should have as a smart player and train, adapt and find a way to overcome.

Paul theoretically did that, I’m sure there were many Charecters whose playstyle he believes isn’t healthy for the game in pools and etc. but he beat them all. That doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t like it and I can at least respect him for not crying after losing without looking for a way fight and win against These charecters.

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I’m with @GalacticGeek on this one. I get that Paul b doesn’t like certain characters and so does ultra David but I don’t understand the relevance.
I’m not fond of Raam but I accept he’s in the game and move on, I’m not gonna campaign to have him changed. I love gargos.

Plenty of other fighting games out there and ki has plenty of other characters. If the game isn’t fun anymore just move on.

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Ultra David’s opinions are important because he’s been around for a long time, has studied multiple games in-depth (for commentating and personal interest) and generally has reasonable things to say about games and their mechanics. He’s seen the decisions developers make and the consequences those decisions have across various games.

If someone with this type of experience and insight is criticizing game design decisions, I think it’s worth listening to him. Should you agree? That’s up to you, but take what he’s saying into account. Think about it.

It’s also really bad for our community and our game to have someone with this type of experience and insight making criticisms like this. Criticisms that most of the competitive community are also making about the game.


But the fgc isn’t the be all and end all of this game tbh.
I’ve been playing games for 30 years but no one is gonna hold my opinion over anyone else’s and I don’t expect them too.
If he or you don’t like the game you shouldn’t ruin for ones that actually like playing those characters.
Years ago before patches if the game came out, it wasn’t for changing.

If i don’t enjoy a game I simply move on, I’m not gonna ruin someone else’s enjoyment of it.
I loved usf4 but can’t really stand sfv and it involves some of the characters but I understand there’s thousands of players out there who love what I hate.


Most? No, not most. More like some. You can’t possibly speak for the majority of the competitive community.

With that said, I do understand the idea of how an expert opinion can carry more weight. However, that doesn’t mean that it can’t be wrong in some way - it’s still shaped from what they know, and what they may know can still be wrong or limited or even manipulated.

A good example would be an expert witness on the stand at trial who is unkowingly presenting false (or tampered) evidence against the accused, who is, in fact, innocent. The jury may be likely to believe and/or agree with him/her, but that doesn’t always mean that what they’re presenting is correct - naturally, the ramifications for such a thing are rather dire. The same applies here, I think.


So he doesn’t like Raam’s instinct, Omen’s transparency, Gargos’ options and Arbiter in general. But he seems to like Tusk and Mira.

I don’t know, I don’t see his criticism as a scathing indictment of this game. He likes some character designs, he questions a few design decisions in some and others aren’t really his thing. Personally, I love Gargos and Mira from this season. Absolutely love them. I’d probably change a few things about Tusk and Kim Wu, but I like them, however I’m really not that in to Arbiter or Raam and they’d probably have to alter them a fairly decent amount to change me on them.

Doesn’t mean that these latter two are trash or that IG can’t design characters, of course. They’ve made plenty of character designs that I really enjoy. Arbiter and Raam just don’t appeal to me personally (from a gameplay perspective), but I know that others love the way they play.

I can see some season 3 characters getting some adjustments, especially prior to season 4 (assuming that’ll happen at some point) and I’m sure they’ll take feedback from fans of all skill levels in to account.

If the characters you love appeal to you that much, then I don’t see why that should deter anyone where it comes to characters they don’t.


I adore Kim, tusk and mira.
It’s true even if there isn’t a s4 it’s not to say the cast could get another tweaking in the months to come. They said they were trying to let the game breath and the dust settle before deciding if things need changed big and small

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Polarizing is how it’s going to be when a game has such great variety within its roster. No way around it. Ultradavid would be posting similar opinions if he got into Guilty Gear, for example, undoubtedly, I’d say.

I also see nothing negative about this type of publicity within the FGC. He presents some good opinions, and some bad ones, and all it can do is raise awareness of the game, and make whoever may have interest in giving the game a chance, go for it. Those that are thrown off by the negative comments wouldn’t have given the game a chance to begin with, IMO.

Also, his opinions are most certainly not only valid but more than worth taking into consideration.


Good point. From now on, we will alll ignore your opinions. *Sarcasm

Why are you arguing that @llPaulBll cant speak for the competitive community, when you yourself are a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller voice than he is? You have no right to put in as much input as you have if you feel that even @llPaulBll s points are not valid.

He explained perfectly. This is a time when you need to put things in perspective, and just listen.

I say that as a friend.

Wow that’s a tad overkill. His opinion is as valid as Paul’s or ultra Davids. Just because his opinion is different doesn’t make it any less important.


I’m not saying that he can’t but that he shouldn’t - 1 person cannot speak for a group unless said group has officially appointed him to do so, which in this case, they have not done here. Nor did I say his views are invalid - I’m merely saying that, despite his expertise, he can still be wrong and that the things he states should be taken with a grain of salt. People should be able to assess things logically and and create their own opinions, not simply agree with everything a supposed expert says because they assume he’s always right.

I have every right to share my input as much as he does, as a member of this community. It may not carry as much weight, but that’s not the point I’m trying to make here.


like they said at evo, you gotta treat KI right. Ki’s gotta be your bottom b****. This ain’t no side chick, where you main street fighter and play a little KI on the side, KI is the main B****. Learning gargos is a chore? Go play divekick, KI is too much woman for you. Your street fighter game doesn’t easily translate to KI? BooHoo, KI isn’t street fighter, you’re either in or out for high level play, you’re not gonna get top 8 because you play a decent Ken or Ryu.

However… you can still make killer rank and have a great time with the game, like most people do lol


I really do think these are major factors in the presented opinions of UltraDavid - especially with regard to his experiences with games that lack consistent guarantees of damage, and thus significantly different risk/reward conceptualization. I point directly to his positive views of the simplicity and clarity of Tusk/Mira kits, while disdaining the complexity and ambiguity of Gargos and RAAM’s.

Regarding misinformation, does anyone know if Arby ACTUALLY has a true automatic meaty grenade? I know, it’s super specific, but if it’s not true it’s still spreading caustic misinformation, which he, as a lawyer and hi-profile member of the FGC, should know better.

Also, @llPaulBll you forgot the tweet where he states that he just “commentates the games I like/play” and goes on to list pretty much every game at EVO EXCEPT KI, so how much his opinions on a game he apparently doesn’t like or play are worth is debatable, regardless of public stature (and no, the ensuing banter between him and Keits doesn’t change his original post).

I stand by the idea of slanted views based on long-term experience with guaranteed rewards and linear neutral structure. That describes pretty much every other fighting game. The brilliance of KI is the interaction beyond neutral, and the compound reward structure based on that level of interaction. This often seems disregarded when discussing balance, toolsets, and “the direction of the game”.

Just some thoughts and observations.

EDIT: This is all operating on the concept that the views expressed by UltraDavid could deter people from playing the game, or to gather into some warbling horde of haters and nerf-criers, which ISN’T LIKELY. I’m just making the point that a pile of opinions are no more than that - a pile of opinions. Some, perhaps, ill-informed. Some, perhaps, perfectly on point. But opinions nevertheless.


He doesn’t like omen because he’s transparent! Not really game play related tho is it.
The Raam instinct Yeah it’s a bit much but that’s the point of it I hear. To disorientate your opponents.

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WTF??? lololololol

I dont like Ultra David… never have. Seems like Sajam took his job in the SF commentary! OOHHHHHHHHH!!!

Its now the Sajam/Chen team!

Its all good…he can tweet tweet away. Doesn’t matter what he thinks…the game isnt changing based off Davids comments. Im sure the same scenarios can be said about SF5. More so than KI IMO…
How many mirror matches did KI have in top 8?
How many Mirror matches did SFv have in top 8?

Id say there are some tier/ balance issue in one of those…but what do I know?


Meh, every game has its Gargos, every game has their Arbiter. SFV is an example with extremely powerful characters with questionable setups. Yes Gargos and Arbiter have setups, but at the cost of lots of recourse. Look at Dhalism, his teleport yoga fire setups are hard to counter, even for tournament players. His Super can be easily combed for a massive church of life, along with the rest of the cast.
Bison is annoying with all his air shenanigans. although I do agree both characters need some tweaking. As for known streamers and figure heads of any community, their voice will be heard louder than ours. As much as you dislike it.

@GalacticGeek @MDMMORNING

You guys are going WAY TO DEEP into specifics, instead of looking at what really matters.

No viewer cares about the details of why a game looks bad or good, they care about the first thing their brain tells them when they look at it.

How many big names are going to have to tell us that KI needs work before we listen?

Everyone here has an attitude of: "We dont care what others say, KI is good"
But at the same time they have an attitude of: "Why isn’t our game bigger."
These 2 mindsets cant live next to eachother.

Every point needs to be listened to, instead of being torn apart with excuses about why their opinion isn’t 100% justified.

You guys want KI to be bigger? If UltraDavid put out ONE good tweet about KI, it would equate to a lot of new people downloading the trial and trying the game for themselves.

You guys want KI to be bigger? When a professional player comes out and says “Me and the other pros have some concerns”, Listen to them. Dont say: “Do you have a signed petition from all of the other KI pros saying that you are their official representative on the subject?”