Does anyone have any tips on how to fight Shago players with Thunder? I keep getting zoned out and crossed up all day with no way to stop it aside from just breaking. I feel like I keep getting randomed out…
I have beaten plenty of killer Shagos, but ive never ran into any of these OP “unbeatable” Shagos that everyone keeps complaining about.
My method for fighting very good Shagos is to think about the person PLAYING Shago in “Layers.”
Layer 1: They throw out special moves most of the time. Every special is punishable on whiff and VERY EASY on block. So just wait for their mistakes.
Layer 2: They enjoy using “Surge” to get mix-ups. I Stay mid-range, putting slight pressure on them. When they use a slide you can assume they will surge it and end up behind you. Punish after blocking. Both surged an unsurged dive kicks are pretty easy to react to, and the easiest things to block and punish. So i dont think thats a problem for most players. I only know what ive encountered, and i dont think ive ever lost a match from divekicks.
Layer 3: They are a very good player who will ONLY use a special move when the KNOW it will hit. The entire game will be nothing but a huge footsie battle, with crossup attempts being VERY frequent. To beat them, you will have to either have better footsie skill than them, and be good at blocking, or back away from them, and use your characters special abilities and air attacks to OVERWHELM them. Make them regret trying to play the footsie game. Then if they change up and start using special moves again, refer to layer 1 and 2.
Layer 4: The BEST SHAGO EVER! A truly good player will use footsies and crossups to make you hate life. They will dash into throw or diagonal uppercut every time you try to back up into mid-range. At long range, they will rain fireballs if they have the life lead, and if they dont have life lead, will dash in and corner trap you. They will only use special moves when they have you “read” like a book. And if you dare to begin to adapt, they will begin alternating between surged and unsurged moves to keep you guessing.
I personally have never seen one of these in a match, but i fear they are coming soon!
BONUS Layer 5: A Shago that has mastered the art of throwing fast fireballs, and refuses to do anything else. This strategy only works at full screen, and there are a FEW characters that CANT do anything about it at full screen. But if you get to medium range, Most characters can instantly punish with any heavy slide, any air attack (I use Omens air dash and get FULL punishes if spaced right), any projectile invincible move. And then there are a few characters that NEED to get close (Thunder being one of them.) I dont care what anyone on the forums say, IT CAN BE DONE WITH EVERY CHARACTER. I use Omen, who shoots 3 random projectiles, and ive seen Thunders just light head-but through them all day. FROM FULL SCREEN! once you’re close, many Shagos will try to dash through you or under you to get to the other side of the screen. This is where even good players have trouble. You HAVE to predict this movement. Stay on the ground and look for the 1 dash that will put him on the other side of you. (he will be touching you for a split second). Shago’s Dashes have Recovery and Startup just like everything else. If he DOESNT choose to use throw or uppercut out of a dash, you can throw him back into the corner. Or i THINK you can poke. Also characters with Big slides or other “chasing” moves can catch him even if you miss your first opportunity.
You have to remember that every character in the game has a “worst matchup possible” If you think Shago is the hardest for your character, then you should EXPECT a hard time, and learn tools to beat it. Not complain that the matchup wasnt made specifically easier for your character. Im not talking to anyone specifically (like the OP) just to everyone.
I honestly don’t think Thunder stands a chance in this match up. My gameplan against Thunder back when I was playing Shago was this:
Throw a fireball, if Thunder blocks, keep throwing them, if Thunder jumps, heavy divekick to hit him out of the air and then back off, if Thunder sammamishes through the fireball, heavy divekick to hit him out of the air and then back off again. Once backed into a corner do a surged cross up divekick, if it hits, great, do a combo and back off. If it’s blocked, great, use the plus frames to back off safely. It’s hilarious how many near perfects I got doing this, even against top 32 thunders.
If they do light Sammamaish, doesnt it finish recovering before a dive kick can hit? Ive seen thunder do light sammamishes to cross the screen in like 5 seconds.
the best way for u if u need to force him fight, is to play as ARIA ,FULGORE,KAN-RA, SPINAL-CINDER- with all these characters u could also spam fireballs when he do en even disapear to combo them spammers .
with sbrewulf use the down m punch aat the right moment to escape from the fireballs, sadira use the down light kick to escape and force him to come fight (TIP) do it mostly when u have more energy bar than him so the time out do the work if he dont stop spamming fireballs. with jago also if u can answer with the hard punch fireball do but better just use the down medium kick to escape and just wait .
maybe there is others tips too for the rest of the cast but i dont know it. just go to practice and try u should find something interesting
but with the rest of cast thats always shago spamming double fireball and cross up then repeat.
Yeah but if they’re doing that repeatedly slide will stuff their follow up Sammamish.
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You do realize Call of Sky would be USELESS in this matchup right? And to say Thunder deserves a beating, nay, you’re implying anyone who picks Thunder deserves to lose? Because he doesn’t have a projectile anymore. If that statement doesn’t come from a center of immaturity or misunderstanding of the match up, then you are kidding yourself on this one.
A. If your philosophy to making a character better is “give them a projectile”, you have no idea of how to balance a character. Giving him a projectile doesn’t automatically give him the magic step he needs to fight off characters like Kan-Ra, Fulgore, Shadow Jago, Glacius, etc.
B. Call of Sky is, like in almost every other fight, useless in this fight. But let’s illustrate why it’s extra heaping useless in this fight.
Call of Sky had super long start up and recovery. It’s tracking was also nerfed at some point as well before it became what it is now. Try to use it on Jago at short range, and he’s got any number of responses to knock you out of the animation. Use it at long range and:
-His fireballs are so fast, he can still spam them and beat the move out and recover before it hits. Jago’s fastest fireball = Shadow Jago’s slowest fireball. Shadow is not in the least intimidated by the move, AT ALL, rendering it useless.
-He uses either Heavy slide or surge slide to close distance FAST. The tracking on the move was nerfed, so well timed wind kicks and Orchid’s slide kick, really any move with forward momentum, would move faster than the move’s tracking, it misses, the Shadow Jago player is still not intimidated. Or he can surge slide and instant hit behind Thunder, and ruin the casting animation before it comes out, Shadow Jago still not impressed.
-Shadow Jago’s forward dash is fireball invincible, making him unafraid of just running in wildly and mindlessly at the casting animation, and still not intimidated by it. Add to that he can do the spinning sword move or cross up Dark Stalking to evade and hit thunder for combo, either airborne or grounded depending, and Shadow Jago is still not intimidated.
-The super long recovery of the animation makes you a perfect victim of his annihilation instinct grab and shaves 48% off of Thunder for free. Shadow Jago also has plenty of time to respond with either a fireball or a teleport dash to hit with Dark Shackles.
I would say all in all, Call of Sky, the projectile version, is useless in almost any match up, but this one is EXTRA useless.
C. If you don’t like Thunder, don’t use him, a lot of us like him despite his shortcomings. You’re hating on a character just because they don’t have a projectile (anymore), not because he’s an OP character, or because of a bad design, or some legitimate reason.
D. If you couldn’t fight as Thunder without the projectile, you couldn’t fight as him with it either. Thunder is a Grappler, not a zoner.
If Thunder is the worse character,who is the best? If Thunder is the weakest character to YOU,and to others Thunder isn’t,he isn’t for you,not the weakest. Thunder may have a hard time with this match up but if he can do the right mixups,Thunder can get the pressure. Especially if he has a good read. Shago’s fireball is not safe up close. Shago can’t get in safely without meter. Everything is unsafe. You can slowly move forward and make a good read for a combo.