Thunder Season 3 Rebalance Discussion


#1

Continuing the trend of the other subforums. Use this thread to discuss the changes.

Thanks!

Thunder

[-] Ender functions and damage retuned to be in line with the rest of the game.
-Ankle Slicer Ender no longer causes a hard knockdown and deals much less damage, but still gives a full size battery bonus.
-Triplax Ender deals less damage, but more than Ankle Slicer, and still causes a Wall Splat.
Sammamish Ender deals less damage, but more than Ankle Slicer and Triplax, and now causes a Hard Knock Down if you don’t juggle after.
Call of Earth Ender no longer causes a hard knockdown and deals a bit less damage, but is still the damage ender.
[-] Shadow Call of Earth damage decreased by ~15% (Deals 20% damage instead of 23%)
[-] Jumping HP damage reduced by ~15%
[-] Thunder is no longer allowed to cancel the landing recovery of a whiffed Sammamish into another special or shadow move.
[-] Shadow Sammamish damage reduced by ~20%
[-] Light Sammamish no longer allows Sammamish Followups
[+] Light Sammamish now has full body invulnerability on startup instead of just upper body.
[+] Call of Sky has 10 frame shorter recovery, adds “Murder of Crows” buff to Thunder 1 frame earlier, and can destroy incoming projectiles from frames 14 to 20.
[+] Thunder can now cancel a hit or blocked Skyfall into Murder of Crows enhanced dash.
[+] Fixed a bug preventing the duration of the Call of Sky buff from refreshing if you used Call of Sky again while the buff was still on.
[+] Juggle properties of some moves adjusted for increased juggle opportunities.
[+] Standing Light Kick causes Flip Out, and the hitbox has been improved to assist with juggling.
[+] New Sammamish followups: Dropkick and Surprise Knee! After Sammamish –
-HK – Skyfall – The same two foot stomp you know and love, but it now causes a ground bounce for a juggle opportunity.
-MK – Dropkick – Causes a Hard Knockdown.
-LK – Surprise Knee – Causes Flipout.
-These can carry your trajectory in interesting ways. Experiment!
-Dropkick and Surprise Knee have 15 frame landing recovery. They are punishable on block so use them wisely.


#2

Invincible light sammamish.

Mic drop…


#3

I’m so happy about this. The rest of the changes look decent, honestly - I don’t feel like we’re losing too much with the nerfs, and think that the buffs will be ones which can be worked into my game. I almost never used the Murder of Crows buff, but there are good reasons to get used to using it now.

It’s fun to see that I (and others) predicted the additional Sammamish followups, pretty closely too.

Flipout and juggle will be fun to use.

WHY did the biggest, most brutal human currently in the game miss out on Stagger? Seems really silly that the emaciated mummy can stagger someone with bandages, but Thunder can’t; I would think the close headbutt at least might have Stagger properties.


#4

I think Thunder’s throw linkers might have caused some buggyness with the stagger mechanic so they just left it out.


#5

Just dropping in to say I called this.


#6

It’s stated in one of the nerfs that Light Sammamish can no longer be cancelled into other special moves. Does this apply to medium & heavy sammamish as well?? :unamused: Looks like we’re gonna have to stay charged this time around to stay safe when trying to get in. No more whiff cancels to COE . . I think thats lame considering it was so easy to react to. All the opposer had to do was neutral jump & follow up. I prefer the dp cancels, because it was high risk or high reward tactical. The variation in strength with the sammamish cancels forced people think; which was a great tool considering the brute can’t zone. Flip out doesn’t look promising but, I’ll wait for the release to make my final call. I guess the flip out animation to air SCOE is cool. . I can see the potential for some pretty devastating resets, but at high level play, I’m sure it’s not hard to maneuver out of. Realistically, all you have to do is NOT jump if you’re the opposer. Meh, we’ll see.


#7

Oh yeah, that head butt would be cool with a stagger. A successful heavy triplax might stagger? Just throwing that out there.


#8

Basically, the tradeoff on having a truly invincible (meterless) reversal in Sammamish is that there should be more risk to the move because of it’s unique properties. Similar to Tiger Fury, Orchid’s knee, Fulgore’s uppercut, fireflash, etc., all these moves have invincible properties. How fair would it be to cancel what little landing recovery it had into another invincible move right after. There would barely be any potential for at least a full grounded punish, and people could mindlessly spam Sammamish across screen to close distances and mix it up with the fully invincible version at close range.

While the variation in the strength of the DP made your opponent think, it could render the gameplay Thunder had to being a little mindless.

Really, his DP was less about reversal punishment before, and more about closing distance and getting in on the opponent. However, given that he now has new follow ups to Sammamish that close distance and can be used to punish some terrible whiffs, the need to cancel the DP over and over to close distance isn’t that necessary and could make a mindless spam of the move MUCH worse. Also given that they say he needs his Murder of Crows dash to cancel out of skyfall, in Instinct mode, you now can practically get away with spamming DP and tossing skyfall to cancel and go for the most ridiculous mix up game ever.

Really, for what Thunder lost, it’s actually a small price to pay, because he gained a LOT. The Instinct mode should REALLY terrify now, since you can cancel triplax and skyfall and be at no loss for offense.

Also given the damage nerfs to the cast in general regarding all enders and emphasizing more creative combos, as well as slightly extending match length (because everyone isn’t dealing damage as fast), Thunder is more capable of competing and hitting hard than ever. His emphasis an being the most damaging character is more important the ever. He’s not going to be easy to play like Jago or others, as he still has a learning curve, but he’s now much better than he’s ever been. In season 1 he was good, season 2 he suffered because of the changes in gameplay and character design, but in season 3, he’s gonna have better attack patterns and tools to deal with his more problematic competition, and will finally get the justice he deserves.


#9

Good points here. I’m in agreeance. I can’t wait to get my vengeance.


#10

Max recently posted a video on his youtube channel of the Season 3 build fights between a few participants at world cup. During one of the matches, ShinTristan picks Thunder and WRECKS, you really need to see those matches, he uses the new ground bounce properties of skyfall and flip out to adsolutely terrifying effect, Jebailey gets shut down pretty bad in those matches. You wouldn’t think Thunder was capable of such powerful juggle combos. If you think he has high damage potential with grounded combos, you ought to see some of these Sammamish juggles and resets.