The Replay and Analysis Thread

Try Down to Forward pause a half second and hit a button. It Negative Edges the TK. I use this all the time with both Hisako and Sadira.

I tried this when you first suggested it and had no success. Are you sure you’re doing no :arrow_upper_right: or :arrow_up: when you’re doing this? That just seems bizarre that it could happen with no upward input

Also, I’m finding training the heavy cross-up version to be helpful. I’m more consistent when on the left side, and immediately doing it on the right side while I still have the rhythm of a successful TK is making things better. Still, I’d love to know exactly why the game is sometimes not accepting my :arrow_down::arrow_lower_right::arrow_right::arrow_upper_right:s

You have to time the pause right. If you do it too fast you will get the reg command.

It takes a lot of practice, but it does work. It’s just :arrow_down: :arrow_lower_right: :arrow_right: and then a slight pause and then whatever button you want to use.

Hmmm, instead of blindly stabbing in the dark, I can rig up AutoHotKey to input with different pauses and figure out what the minimum/maximum delay for this is.

I’m very interested, because this approach has a safety advantage; an error would either have me throwing a grounded normal or ORZ, not doing a big ol’ jump attack whiff.

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Haven’t got your trick to work, but I did find, through testing, that there seems to be a 3-frame link time between directions. If you’re slower than 3 frames moving between any two directions, things get dodgy. I probably have a timing kink somewhere in my TK that’s breaking the chain

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I also wasn’t able to get that trick to work @WebNRagnarok - I’d need to see footage of it to think that’s a valid input for a TK I think.

Here are the sets between me and Ragnarok from today. I’ll add my thoughts a bit later.

First FT10:

Second FT10:

Jago Mirror FT5:

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You’re a really good player Ragnarok, so my comments will be pretty brief. I think your play only has a couple of gaps, but they are gaps that can add up really quickly against the wrong opponent.

  • You are too used to jumping after everything. That’s fine in most MU’s, but there are definitely members of the cast who can make you pay for that.
  • Somewhat related, you miss a lot of confirms because you’re jumping all the time. I got tagged quite a few times with jumping normals, and then instead of confirming into combo you immediately jumped again. Gotta be ready to get into the combo game once you get the touch from a mixup.
  • Very consistent combo patterns. From your play I’d guess that most people you run into panic a bit when you hit them and lock themselves out? You rely a lot on heavies and tend to use them in the same places. That’s fine, but you need to adjust faster to someone who can react to them and is breaking as often as I was.
  • Need to maximize lockout damage. The few times I did lock out, you almost never used the full lockout window to pile on damage. Sako hits considerably harder than Sadie does - you won’t beat her if you miss opportunities to do max damage.
  • Don’t guess break. You ate a huge amount of extra damage over the set getting locked out in the middle-to-second-half of my combos.
  • You spend a lot of meter on wakeup escapes. Sadie’s weak on knockdown so I understand why you do it, but it exacerbates the damage disparity between her and Hisako when you’ve never got anything for shadow cashout.
  • Watch my meter. A lot of heavy kunais got SC’d because you tossed them out without paying attention to whether or not I could shadow counter.
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I title it The Savagry of @STORM179 or My Salty Tears. :joy_cat:

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Oddly enough, when I pulled up my list for songs for today’s church service (I’m the music director), the first hymnal on my list was, “A Shelter in the time of Storm.” I’m like… WHERE WERE YOU LAST NIGHT! :smile:

Very solid advice. I do use a LOT of heavies in my attacks and generally if my timing is good, I will do random Counter Breakers if I see the opponent breaking often. My timing was total garbage last night and half the time I tried to do a Counter Breaker I was doing it WAY too late. I let your prestige get the better of me. :smiley:

I’m still growing in the area of combo variety. Part of the issue I have and it just takes a LOT of muscle memory to work it out, is dealing with Negative Edge. I notice that I do a LOT of heavy linkers, instead of using light or mediums here and there. I’m generally good in Practice Mode, but half the time I try to do something like this in an actual match, I end the combo early. Gotta work on that.

In terms of my own breaking… Yes I need to work on that quite a bit. I normally use audio queues to tell me what to do for a break, but recognizing animations would also help, as you did a lot of light attacks, and because I heard them hit twice, I thought… oh yeah… its a MEDIUM… :stuck_out_tongue:

I also notice that I got time locked out a lot too.

Now I have a question…

I’ve been using Hisako a lot here and there, and I’m trying to use Wrath to blow up Counter Breaker attempts. I have full Wrath Meter, but anytime I try to interrupt a Counter Breaker, my Wrath Cancel is completely ignored. Am I doing it too late? Do I need to Wrath Cancel before I hear “Counter Breaker?”

You can’t use wrath to invalidate counter breakers. If someone counterbreaks and you break, then you’re hosed. If you’re talking about blowing up shadow counters however, then you just do it while the screen freezes and guy yells shadow counter - you buffer the counter in the freeze the same way you do on an instinct activation.

On the jumping thing - I also noticed rewatching the set that I missed four counter breakers across those 25 games, and didn’t get punished for a single one. In each case you just jumped back, because your instinctive reaction to a lot of stuff is to jump back. Make sure you work on that as well; don’t wanna let people just get off scot-free when they make bad calls.

I like that hymn, by the way :slight_smile:

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And be aware of the high/low. Shago, Omen, ARIA, and Eagle seem to have low shadow counters. Not 100% sure on the last two, since I haven’t successfully parried them, but they at least look low.

For Ragnarok

This is the big issue that i noticed through your Sadira games as well as some of the Jago ones. You don’t seem to be comfortable playing grounded at all. Or maybe it’s nerves? Whatever the case may be, when you were on the ground, your offense was very spotty. I saw a whiffed parry while your were grounded go unpunished; you chose to jump back. I saw twice where you got a raw hit with the instinct webs and you didn’t capitalize; you chose to jump back. I even saw a opener/ender sequence out of Storm that you didn’t break on. That carried over to the Jago games. You did not seem to be comfortable with approaching grounded. I saw a lot of empty jump throws or just jumps to close the distance when neither were throwing fireballs. If it’s because of being uncomfortable, that could be a huge hole in your playstyle. Can you elaborate on this?

I only saw one counter breaker combo and it wasn’t quite all you could’ve made it to be.

You seem to give up ground a little too easily at times. Let me go to 5:25 of the second video for a kinda more clear cut example. There, all Storm did was wait for your jumps, dash in, and you jumped back. All the way to the point where you were cornered and all he has to do is stand at a comfortable position where he could still tag you with a number of options.

Did you notice that after awhile, your medium kunai started drawing immediate down HP’s from Storm after he blocked them? Is there something you can do as Sadira to address that?

4:12 of the second video, what was that?

You could possibly explore the medium drop while in instinct from some of these jump scenarios and use the web to discourage a followup button?

I lost the timestamp, but there was an instance where you had a pixel left and Storm had a full red bar. You got him into a combo that took maybe 20% of that full bar and went for a counter breaker. In that instance, there is nearly zero incentive for a player to break a combo when all they need to do to kill you is make you block a couple of buttons.

When you made the switch to Jago, i feel like you were playing him with a very your-style-of-Sadira mindset and not so much to Jago’s strengths. Or maybe that is how you like to attack the mirror?

I can rarely think of a reason if Jago wants to wakeup DP that he would use shadow DP. Better to conserve that meter for other uses when your three versions of DP are all invincible.

Something i want to ask you about, if you recall. At 4:40 of the third video, there was an exchange where, after landing a jump normal, you chose a sweep manual. And you didn’t escape the corner. What was your reasoning for not going into a combo there as well as, once you got the knockdown, not escaping the corner?

For Storm

More than a few times Ragnarok tried to sweep you, but you blocked, but didn’t get off a punish. I know as Kim i can punish with a 7f cr MP, and i think your cr MK is maybe even faster than that and reaches further?

Saw a tricky little manual st HK to jump HK manual. Nice.

When Sadira is over your head, your instinct is to just sit still for that?

I kinda wished the two of you had picked more different colors for your Jago mirror, but it’s a minor gripe.

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Omen and Shago have the only low shadow counters in the game. Both Aria shotgun knee and Eagle shadow slide are mids.

Oh ok, I wasn’t sure about ARIA, but I’m really surprised about Eagle’s

Heh. Yeah, I wasn’t too pleased about that one myself the first time I got hit by it :joy:

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-shrug- It’s more that it’s kinda the only option I’ve got. Sadira’s light kunai shuts Hisako down hard, so if a player uses it a lot you sort of just have to take it - trying to cr.HP or counter is a good way to get counterhit into full combo. If the Sadira player wants to go for mixups or use a lot of empty lows you can challenge with AA’s or counter, but if they like to float over your head and use light kunai you’re generally just better off blocking.

Dashing can get you out if they’re spending too much time in the air, but because of how atrocious Sako’s backdash is it’s terribad if your inputs get crossed up.

Mostly I just wasn’t expecting to see sweep in those situations, so tended to be a bit late on pushing buttons after. I’ve got old man reactions, so I’m usually not the best at punishing things that genuinely surprise me. :sweat_smile:

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I really wish the game would give high/mid/low information in the Attack Data or something

At best, moves will list properties they possess like low crush, overhead, invincible, stagger, etc. But with that, nah. It was before the time of training modes like Tekken 7, Street Fighter V or Mortal Kombat X that gave you that.

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It does. It’s one of the options in training mode. Can’t auite remember what it’s called, but you can turn on two things - one is attack (frame data), the other puts icons on top that say high/low/manual/autodouble, etc.

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You might be thinking of the combo state icons? They’d tell you what type of attack you’re doing within a combo, but they don’t tell you outside of combo on whether it’s high/low. Only light/medium/heavy linker, double, manual, opener, ender, etc.