The Golem vs. The Ghost in S3

After watching Storm’s clip, it actually doesn’t seem so bad. In a lot of instances, I was actually able to jump away and avoid her d+HK, certainly moreso than I even though myself. Still there are instances that concern me regarding it. In at least 1 of the fights you see an instance where Hisako blocks my d+HK stomp and almost immediately counters with a d+HK of her own that’s so fast, I’m still in recovery from my own move (or so it seems).

You’ll also see an instance where I clearly cross-up Hisako, only to be hit by her d+HP from the aother side.

There’s 1 really good combo that Storm does in the clip where in the same combo, he opens me up, starts the combo, hits me with a command grab mid-combo, and even hits me with a jumping attack (that wasn’t air on-ryo-zan) all while maintaining the very same combo. I could be mistaken (I’d have to go back and look), but I’m not sure if she had full wrath or instinct while doing this either (which, I think would make sense, and might in fact be the case).

There’s another instance where I knock Hisako down and then throw the peacemaker while she’s getting back up only to have it pass right through her. I don’t think this should’ve happened.

In yet another instance, there’s a moment where I trade with Hisako as we both do d+HK. I get knocked down, but despite mine hitting her as well, it doesn’t likewise knock her down (it’s supposed to be a hard knockdown). She instead remains standing and as a result, is able to recover and counter-attack faster than I was able to.

There are multiple instance where flip-out is used to great effect to hit with influence. This is simply something I’m not accustomed to yet in S3. Since S3’s release, I have a habit of performing shadow ruin after an opponent combo-breaks me (or vice-versa) to give them a rather nasty surprise. While punishable, if expected, in my experience, most of the time it’s not. The reason I bring this up is because seeing the flip-out with Hisako makes me want to do similar things, but of course, due to the command grab, it gets stuffed instead. I would often press up to neutral jump the command grab, but still fail at it because the jump would never come out. According to Storm, since we’ve already talked about this, he said I can simply hold up to jump instead of mashing it wildly like I tend to do, which would cause it come out too late. I did not know this and will be trying it in the future. There was at least 1 instance, however, and I think this was attributed to roll-back lag, where it appeared like she grabbed DURING the flip-out before I ever actually thouched the ground. However, I didn’t see this particular instance in the clip, and even so, Storm’s connection is probably better than mine, so you probably wouldn’t see it from his perspective anyways (and since it’s his recording, well…).

I’m sure there’s more, but it’s late and I’m getting tired and it’s getting harder to think. Feel free to analyze the clip, as Storm said, and look for and comment on the many things I’ve posted here from my own observations. My only request is that you don’t “tear it apart” like Storm mentioned - I don’t want everybody overly criticizing his or my playstyle by saying things like “you should have done this instead” or “that was a stupid thing to do” or “why did you do that?” Instead, offer a suggestion positvely - “you could try this” or “did you know about this?” or “here’s what I would do” and etc. You get the idea. I’ll see you all in the (late) morning.

Aw, why’d you have to make another post!? i want my sleep, dagnabbit! Now I feel obligated to reply. Okay, after this I will go to sleep, so don’t reply to this until the sun rises, or I’ll be tempted to reply again!

Good advince here. I’ve never thought to do that, but then again that’s probably because I’ve NEVER seen anyone use a command grab reset mid-combo

[quote=“STORM179, post:20, topic:9217”]
Don’t be afraid to punch Hisako in the face for using descent raw
[/quote]I tried that, but it would often whiff or got counter-hit. With the right pokes from Hisako after descent (thanks for telling me what that’s called!), she can stuff his LP, since it’s relatively slow for a poke. The LK is good, but it whiffed in a few instances in the clip because I was using the standing version, which depending on what Hisako’s doing after the descent, she can easily low-profile. I know I can use the crouching version, but I think it’s a tad bit slower (I know his jumping LK is a LOT slower. Why is that BTW?). I like his medium attacks because of their reach (especially that low MK, which extends out), but I think they’re actually slower than even Hisako’s d+HK (althoug\h that may not necessarily apply post-descent rising).

Hey @CStyles45 - seems like I’m not actually going to be home tonight, so afraid I’ll have to raincheck on our match. Hopefully can catch up with you sometime soon tho - been wanting to have a go at your S3 Aganos :slight_smile:

I’m chalking this thread up to further evidence of Storm’s Hisako prowess… :sunglasses:

Wait, so I read this entire (admittedly useful) thread hoping to see @CStyles45 Vs @STORM179’s match and it hasn’t happened yet? Y’all are a bunch of teases! I’ll just have to find my match up knowledge elsewhere :stuck_out_tongue:

Lol Soon, my friend. Soon.

Or they already did it, and didn’t share it. XD

Nah, we haven’t played yet. I wound up having an actual social life this weekend instead of playing videogames :-p

It’ll happen. Maybe not in the next couple of days though on my end.

This is a match that plagues me too. I lost to Charbok in the tourney because I have a huge mental block against her. I always assume everyone knows how to whiff punish perfectly so I feel hesitant in trying to hit her. I also feel like I can’t pressure her on her wakeup as she can either command grab me if I’m too close or hit me with a heavy from a further distance. I know there are things I can do but general lack of fighting her hasn’t helped me at all. She hardly ever shows up in ranked so when she finally does, I just overwhelm myself on what I should and shouldn’t be doing that I just get blown up for it.

If you end up close to her, try and throw her, because it can’t be countered. Alternatively, you can neutral jump to bait a counter or crossup.

Otherwise, if you’re some distance away, use the d+HK ground stomp - if you’re at just the right distance, she can’t counter the shockwave. Alternativery, you can roll a chunk at her with qcf+LP light paloaad assault to hit her 1st or force her to potentially jump (works more often then you think), so you can hit her with a followup qcf+K natural disaster roll w/jump whichever strength suits the distance.

Speaking of the ND roll and jump, I recently learned that you can slow the momentum of the move’s jump by holding b+u at the same time, which can be use to confuse your opponent.

Jump backwards if she ever teleports. Watch for her d+HP though; it often has a tendency to hit you while behind her for some reason, even though it doesn’t visually make sense.

Save shadow meter to use for qcb+PP for shadow pulverize if you think she’ll try to grab you, influence you, or possess you - all are considered throws or command grabs, and s.P is throw-invulnerable until it hits.

Hope this helps. :wink:

This can be so fun to use! I often grab right out of the roll as opponents crouch block or hold back/walk back!

I actually have trouble against Aganos as Hisako, but thats only an experience thing cause barely anyone I play uses him.

My Aganos says, “hi!” :wink:

I didn’t say nobody uses him, I meant I don’t fight him a lot.

Boy, you really don’t know when someone’s brandishing an opportunity right in front of you, do you? If you really don’t want it, then I guess I’ll just have to find someone else for my golem to fight instead…

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I know what you were saying, but I was saying a statement.

Im not even home I’ve been at work all day lol

We’ll play sometime, maybe tonight if you are up for it

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Personally after playing charbok the mu isnt worse but extremely different now. Aganos has to be much more aggressive and stay on hisako more often than he did so she can’t take advantage of the range on her heavies. Back in s2 I would just hang back Alot and wait for hisako to ■■■■■ up but that’s not a good idea now. Stay close to hisako and use your standing lk and mp often and keep a wall in front and behind you for optimal spacing if you can. And watch out for that damn freeze frame command grab. That was catching me more than anything.

he’s my S2 main… a lot of people under-estimate the gentle giant, he has short coming but is soo beast

Shadow influence is Hisako’s most underrated move for sure. It should be a huge part of her gameplan in most matchups I think. It’s only 1f slower than Thunder’s shadow grab and only slightly less range. And Hisako has such a scary forward dash that you can basically never sit still against her at like 2/3 screen or you’re gonna get got.

Hm. I agree that shadow influence is an amazing, amazing tool, but there are reasons you might not see it as much as you think you should. Hisako’s uber-slow walk speed means that if she isn’t already in range for it, then a dash is pretty much the only thing that’s going to get you in range, and a lot of people push buttons or jump on reaction to her dashing up like that. It’s a lot easier to whiff it than you might think against higher level players who are familiar with the matchup.

That crawl she does to grab them also gets her in trouble. Thunder just kind of reaches out and snatches the opponent when he does shadow COTE, while Hisako tends to walk into buttons during that freeze frame instead. Thunder’s grab is quite a bit “safer” to throw out in my experience - Hisako’s a lot more liable to get stuffed during her shadow influence than he is.

It’s still a fantastic tool, and I’d actually agree that it’s mostly underutilized, but depending on your opponent it’s a little bit harder to land in neutral than I think you might be thinking. It is unambiguously good in the Aganos match-up though - it’s pretty much a strict punish on quite a few of the things Aganos likes to toss out at midrange.

Hmm? The walk during the freeze is just cosmetic; the hitbox comes out 0f after the freeze ends, like Thunder’s.

If there is a button there, you can only hit her during the 6f startup (when there is no crawl) or you can’t hit her at all. It’s just like Thunder’s there, as far as I know.

EDIT - Played around in training a bit. What I said is true but I’m sure you already knew that. I guess what you’re referring to is if there is an active hitbox in the path of Hisako when the screen freeze happens? It took me like 50 tries to get that to work but apparently Hisako does lose here (I guess hit > grab in the priority). But this does seem like a really rare thing to have happen. Hisako can and often does just outrange/outspeed buttons in the neutral with the grab’s startup, and if you run into a button during startup, you’ll get stuffed just like Thunder would. Plus, I imagine this happens to Thunder roughly about as often as it happens to Hisako.

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