It’s just something I thought of. I’m keeping my focus on normals and specials, then I’ll determine if I can spend the time on that when those are done. I don’t want to get part way through the characters and lose interest. I made that same mistake trying to learn UE4.
Also, I’m loving Avidemux.
Well, go ahead and verify Jago’s frame data and see how long it takes you. To be perfectly honest, “verifying” the data is the same as “collecting” the data, so if your verification process is fast, then you don’t even have to do the first step of recording in-game frame data… you just do the videos and type the numbers you get in the sheet.
But once you get some muscle memory down for using the programs and you know exactly what you’re looking for, you can probably do 1 normal in 1 minute. I imagine it will take about… 2 hours to do a character from scratch (using the fields on your check box + breakable ADs and linkers), maybe less if you don’t get easily sidetracked.
Pro tip for counting recovery (since it’s hard to know exactly when a character is done animating a move): do the normal and then hold UP so that the character jumps as soon as he is back in neutral. The very first frame the character has recovered, his hitbox will change to a pre-jump state (and will lose the throw box), so it is a very clear sign that “ok, recovery is over and he is doing something else”. Count all the frames from when the red box disappears up to (but not including) the frame where he tries to jump.
To count frame advantage on block or hit, you do the same thing: record a dummy doing the move, and then hold UP as fast as you can. Take control of P1, and either get hit or block the move, then hold UP yourself. Make sure it’s Jago vs Jago so it’s easy to tell. Then, simply count the number of frames when one Jago jumps before the other one. It will be very clear in the video that there are, say… 2 frames that the Jago doing the move jumps first, so he is +2 on hit/block for this move.
I’m setting up everything now, and I’ll start going through it in a little bit. Hopefully, I’ll have Jago’s data “fixed” and ready to move onto Wulf by tomorrow.
Thanks for the tips on the recovery and advantage frames.
Yeah no problem.
It pays to set up the process carefully at first, so you know you aren’t making a bunch of mistakes which invalidates all your work. Take your time with Jago (I’m certainly in no rush for anything) and get in a rhythm with the recordings and how you count the frames, so that when you do another character you’re confident that your process is generating correct numbers.
There will be hiccups here and there, especially for the more complicated characters… like, Cinder has Trailblazer, which has two stages and hits differently depending on distance, etc. I think that’s why bastfree was counting hit stun and all that. But there are tricks to handle this that you can try to figure out yourself or ask others when you get to them.
If I can make one suggestion is that you include the first frame the red box shows up in your startup calculations. This is the “Street Fighter way” of doing frame data and IMO it’s much better. So that means Jago’s jab is 5 frames, not 4 like KI’s frame data suggests (4 frames of non-hitting startup, active on 5th frame). It’s up to you but I definitely recommend you do it this way, since it will make your shadow move calculations easier, among other things.
So, using that Jago’s jab example, it should look like Button > frame > frame > frame > Redbox = 5 frame startup ?
Just trying to make sure I understand this, then I’ll be fine.
Right.
1: Button shows up (also 1st frame of startup, Jago should be clearly seen animating something via some hitbox shift)
2: frame
3: frame
4: frame
5: 1st time you see the red box
This is a 5f startup move by SF terms. KI calls it “4 frame” in the attack data. So basically, they are -1 on everything by omitting that 5th frame in their calculations.
It’s annoying though, because if you want to punish a move that is -5 on block, it makes sense that a 5 frame move should be your fastest option. The KI way, though, means you can use a 4f move to punish -5 on block, and you always have to add +1 to everything and yada yada, easy to get lost over time.
Now, here’s a potentially odd question. Wouldn’t somebody (or a collection of somebodies) at IG know the exact, absolutely no error frame data for every character and every normal or special?
At the very least they’d have to have access to it when programming and animating, right?
Of course. The problem is, we don’t have access to it. We’re supposed to in the attack data ui, but, just from the last hour or so that I’ve been recording myself, that (in some cases) is just waaaaay off.
For example, Jago’s heavy Wind Kick is listed as having 28 recovery frames. In my recording he has 35.
Oh, I’m sure, but the real question is: do you think they’d be willing to share that info? My guess is no, because if they would’ve, we’d have a lot more frame data then they already give us (with normal attacks, for example).
I just ran into an interesting problem. Where do I start counting recovery frames for Fireballs like Jago’s Endokuken? I assume the one’s like Riptor’s Fierce would be the same as any other normal.
I completely understand why they wouldn’t just broadcast that to everybody except for the ingame listing, I was more curious whether it was possible that the “mining” you guys are doing was the only actual list.
If the command lists in game are incorrect, I’m sure they’ll get corrected. It would help you “labrats,” at least. I envy your patience and determination to make use of Practice!
Probably as soon as it comes out (ie, go straight from startup to recovery). The fireball’s first active frame is the first frame of recovery.
Sounds good. That means the Attack Data UI is really off.
Depends how they measure it, I guess.
If I was reading a frame data thing about fireballs, all I really care is how fast the startup is, and what the total duration is (ie, how much time do I have to punish if I try to jump on him or something). So if I can get those numbers, that’s all I care about. In this case, total duration would be startup + recovery.
You should make another thread about mining frame data, because I think some other people might want to help and they won’t know about it buried in here.
Well technically they kind of did give us the frame data for everything in the game. It’s just a few things are wrong (probably due to miscommunication during balancing) and certain mechanics that alter frame data were left out (+2 instincts, slow curses, Aganos chunk levels.) Other than that everything is in the game so they seem more than willing to share.
You sound like me trying to manage my staff 
EDIT: I meant that in the best way possible
I’m dying
Then how come I can’t look up the frame data for Aganos’ finger-flick, among other “normal” moves then?
The frame data for finger flick is in the game. 6 frames of start up, 2 active, 13 recovery, +4 on hit, -3 on block. Whether that’s accurate idk.
I’ve looked for it in the moves list though, and it’s not there. Did you find it in the attack data? I almost never use that because I find it so hard to understand to begin with…