just tell me before i break something.
i never get this mad but i have fought this character for literal HOURS straight and am no closer to figuring out how to beat them with our rock monster.
cr.Hk is all but useless unless i condition them to stop bunny hopping and conditioning that is nigh impossible when all your chunks get ripped off when he sneezes. whenever i’ve used any of my AA’s (peacemaker normals included) it actually LOSES…HARD to his j.Mk.
I was recommended to just try shadow countering his advance but even if i get a combo (manuals make it easier* i guess and i almost never drop them) going for payload assault ender doesn’t give me any reward in this matchup. so…how do you guys do it?
Yes* i’m pretty salty at the moment, but only because i can’t get a bead on what i’m actually supposed to do here. i feel like i haven’t learned anything from these matches and i’m not gonna switch characters when i can keep pushing myself.
How did the omen player play ? did he go to the other end , sent threefire balls then flew towards you , then went to the corner and repeated ?
they were rushing down using fireballs in pressure (getting very lucky with minimal duds in the entirety of our matches) and reapplying shadow orda shield all the time
Put up as many walls as you can, then block until you have meter, then use Shadow wall-crush punch to send him through the walls. The move is projectile invulnerable, so when he throws out fireballs, you can hit him 100% of the time and get about 50% damage.
If he figures out that you are doing this, then he will sit and block. This gives you time to get chunks. then when he moves again, hit him with it again!
(I am an Omen player.)
i don’t quite have access to meter all the time so sitting and shadow ruining is something to do with my meter when i have it. what would you suggest when i’m starved for meter?
Blocking Omen’s Fireballs gives you meter.
Getting hit gives you meter.
You WILL have meter very quickly while fighting Omen.
i’ll have to test this in game considering Aganos gives more meter to the opponent in Season 3 now. I’ll see how many blocked fireballs it takes to get a shadow.
It honestly depends on which type of Omen player you’re fighting. Sometimes you need to get straight in there face and try to bully them with normals before he gets meter. Sometimes you need to use your chunk projectiles to fight him from full screen as the chunks will destroy his fireballs if they collide.
Sometime you just have to sit back and block and try to find the holes in their pressure strings. I’ve fought @MrxFlutterShy (or I suppose @ZDhome now?) before and I was stomped on by him. Thinking back on it, I could have done so many things better against him but I tried to fight him as if heavies didn’t blow up armored moves and so I was punished for it.
Also the club will be a good friend for you in this matchup if you can keep him fullscreen with it.
have wall(s) down (sometimes immediately at the start of the match) and make sure Omen’s floaty jump is punished.
make sure you shadow counter his f+HP (the sabrewulf 1,2 forward slash) - a lot of omens throw fireballs and do the 1,2 slash while you’re blocking the fireballs.
depending on the omen, you really need to know their manuals, as omen can do one chance to break manuals off of throws and fireball strings.
if the omen is far away, place a wall behind you and quickly pick it up so you can stop any aerial threat or fireballs he throws. bang at him for a bit as you close the distance, and then use your quick normals to bully him in the corner. I typically use sLK to sLP, to sMP, then cHK (stomp)
it also helps to play sets with any Omen’s u meet in ranked or exhibition.
i’m not incredible by any means. but i do love the game and learning these MUs. I’m in it for the long haul. I’d say first focus on one or two omen tactics to stop and master. such as shadow countering his 1,2 forward slash, and breaking his light Chun Li kick linker (the light linker is the slowest one). Do that for a while, until you can stop him whenever you feel it’s right.
Lastly, general Aganos tips:
1 don’t throw out ruin unless you have instinct to cancel into if the ruin is blocked.
2 if you’re opponent is close or walking towards you, dont forget shadow lariat is throw invulnerable
3 although, Aganos’s damage is mostly reliant upon walls being down (essentially an elongated setup), make the effort to close out rounds by using the lariat linker (particularly the shadow version) and use the lariat ender. Without a wall setup, this is Aggy’s best way to get max damage (especially if you’re able to get to let a level 3 or 4 ender). … I repeat/rephrase … If you don’t have any walls behind your opponent and your opponent’s health is relatively low, IMO it’s the priority should be to close out a round using lariat linker/ender damage versus building chunks in a combo.
Hope this helps!
after some testing, you have to block exactly 21 fireballs to have enough meter for a shadow. now i’m gonna test these strats you guys have shared and see how they work. thanks for the assist guys!
I use an awful lot of heavy fireball - clears through all his + punishes his fireballs, chunk up again while it flies across the room - I keep doing this to out fireball him until he gets frustrated and flies in - then fierce anti air or roll away.
Playing this fight in both sides with strong omen and aganos players alike I can say this fight is simply a matter of who can establish pressure first. If Aganos gets omen stuck in front of a wall he’ll probably win. If omen starts his pressure he’ll probably win.
This. A lot of people forget that Aganos cannot actually be zoned unless the opponent has a very quickly moving/insta-tracking fireball and/or a teleport. Omen’s fireballs are many things, but they do not generally cross the screen super quickly. If Omen wants to seriously rely on long-range fireball->glide pressure, then Aganos is actually really well equipped to shut that down. It’s much better to simply spend a chunk to lock that down than try to block 21 fireballs and their attendant shenanigans.
But I tend to think the fight is much as @LetalisVenator described it, the match largely decided by who gets to establish pressure first. Neither character is particularly well equipped to deal with the other’s pressure up close.
At our October KI monthly, I played a set with a very solid and agressive omen player (Zipstar). Here are some things that might be helpful:
low flick … if Omen is pressuring with fireballs pretty close (like around sweep range ish) or in your face, low flick will negate most of the fireballs and hit em. Just be prepared to confirm into lariat
l.uproll or roll underneath when omen does the jump-dash kicks … some Omen’s pressure by jumping outside of sweep and doing the pesky heavy kick
upflick … some Omen’s pressure by jumping seemingly over you then crossing back with an aerial attack. stop the nonsense with an upflick
if u can see it roll right into their f+HP command, you should be able to go str8t into combo (see 3:25)
u CANNOT shadow counter his exSlide, but u can punish it w/ c. or s.LK or s.LP into opener. After blocking all 5 hits, i like to put the stick in neutral to prepare/focus on inputting my normal into opener on the opposite side omen slid thru. i find i can punish more consistently that way. You can do your normal into an ex opener to but that may or may not be optimal depending if u want that meter for something else. The ex opener seems to add about 4% damage off the top plus the extra white life. (s.LP~h.lariat - 7%, s.HP~ex.lariat - 11%). Thinking about this, im not sure if i’d opp for the meter opener, unless it’s s.HP~ex.lariat - 17%. 17% damage seems decent to me just for the opener.
Omens often use f+HP~l.fireball to backdash, keep an eye for if low fireball comes out, you’ll have to low flick it or block it, if there’s no low fireball, M and H lariat will punish back dash. (L lariat will catch too but the timing is more strict bc it doesnt cover as much space as the others.) Stomp will also catch the back dash for a chunk, but no combo.
Punish his orda eclipse with s.HP into combo
Punish close light chunli kicks as well with both sets of light or medium buttons, standing or crouching (although if u use c.M it’s 2 frames faster on startup than s.M)
Pay attention to your white life, this character really feeds off resets. his throws build a lot of whitelife. when ur white life is high, do ur best to let that go back down.
If omen gets u in the air in the corner, he is likely going to juggle you with kick normals into l.fireball, and will possibly flip u out (using his knee - LK) Learn the common manuals in this situation, break to taste.
be aware that omen can do serious chip damage, sometimes u’ll just have to hold it, but here are a few strings that have gaps (see 3:40) The pressure string zip seems to do here is sHK~orda eclipse~exfireball immediately followed by a c.LP~h.fireball. I’m not sure if this is the best way to handle, but the only thing i could come up with outside of blocking of course, is to low flick after the exfireball, that should counterhit that light coming out of him and negate the first few fireballs. than block the next 2, then flick again into combo. (basically flick the first group of fireballs and the last flicked fireball should be safe to go into combo)
without a wall hit, shadow ruin is big risk for aganos, omen can shadow form and recover while us aganos players are still recovering from a hangover or something lol.
Anyway that’s all I got for now! I hope this helps someone! Here’s the vid: