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Frame anything is not âbasicâ in any sense of the word - if it was, it would be obvious to new players and/or covered in the dojo. I also already told you that my initial post was NOT an attack on you, so stop acting like it wasâŠ
Which options are those? Iâd like to know!
Well since half of this thread was turned into trying to help you understand frame advantage why donât you see if you canât figure out what those options are on your own?
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First of all, that was mean. You should never be mean when someone asks a legitimate question in an attempt to learn something.
Secondly, I did. I went into practice mode and tried the grab after every move Raam had, and it always whiffed due to block stun. I can wait for a split-second and land it after virtually everything, but that gives my opponent the opportunity they need to backdash or n.jump to avoid it, so I donât really see that as pressureâŠ
How was I mean? Suggesting you put into practice everything you might have learned is just the logical thing to do.
As for your attempts, donât just randomly try it after each move, look at the frame data and identify what âshouldâ work.
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says the guy whoâs first response to he thread was âdur you want buffs.â
You wanna improve with raam? figure it out yourself. Or maybe actually read whatâs been posted. Maybe then 70% of this thread wouldnât be trying to teach you day 1 information.
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Reading frame data isnât day 1 info, or even really beginner level info. I donât think most people start to dig into frame advantage in any meaningful sense until upper-intermediate levels of play for most games.
But I do think thereâs a learning opportunity here for you @GalacticGeek. The opponent being able to neutral jump or backdash your grab out of the frame trap is trivial - any non-wallsplat command grab that can hit is by definition jumpable. The important point (and where understanding frame data comes in) is knowing when and where neutral jump/backdash are unlikely options by the defender. Where are they likely to push buttons, but you still have cards to play?
A general rule of all fighters is âwhen my opponent does something negative, it is now my turn.â The frame data is important because it can let you calculate a time where you can enact the first half of that maxim (Iâve done something negative), but ignore the second (not your turn yet, dummy). A good practical example of this is a blocked Jago wind kick->DP. Jago is certainly negative after medium wind kick, but he isnât so negative that he canât act at all (since med wind kick isnât punishable). Fortunately for him, he has an invincible move that comes out in three frames and beats any attempt to pressure him. You can poke after medium wind kick all you like, but the simple fact of the matter is that your poke will never beat his invincible DP. But itâs still a really good frame trap, because Jago is negative and it shouldnât be his turn anymore.
An example more analogous to Raam (because his grab isnât invincible) is Hisakoâs rekka (blocked)->shadow influence frame trap. Iâm -10 at best after the third ORZ rekka - what reason would anyone have to neutral jump or backdash if theyâve blocked all three rekkas? That move is normally punishable by even fierce attacks, so the opponent is more than likely going to push a button here. But my cancel into shadow influence hits before any non-invincible or non-throw invincible punish you might be attempting. You can mash jab after the third rekka, but my shadow influence will always get to you first.
Raam has similar options after his stab. Go into practice and record Raam doing these strings, and then on the playback see if your mash jab can reach him before he throws you. If it can, then maybe that isnât the strength stab you want or perhaps you muffed the timing; but if it canât, then youâve just found yourself a bonified command grab frame trap.
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When you think youâre a decent RAAM player who predominately uses Deadly Stomp mixups/setups then get told Deadly Stomps is practically useless compared to other setups:
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So how about that RAAM guy, eh? Heâs got some pretty good mixups off of those grab/OTG/knock down shenanigans.
Itâll be crazy when people really dig out the good tech. Once someone unlocks the puzzle box heâll be pretty cool if you can manage the risk. Hope they donât try and normalize him and give him more tools for less damage. Thatâd be hella boring.
(Though if I am going to talk about what the thread has become, because I knew I had reason to be suspicious when a RAAM tech thread had 80 new replies in an hour, I always think of the whole written frame data thing as Plus+ Numbers= Offense Advantage while Negative- Numbers = Defense Advantage. Always assume the written form in KI is referring to the offensive party, similar to how it works in other games like Black Ops 2. Unless this part is no longer relevant, then bury it with the rest of the thread)
Has anyone thought of using cross ups during instinct? I think itâd be helpful. Also, since Kryll Rush is much better I think it wouldnât hurt to try using it more.
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Thatâs not at all what i said. I simply suggested you try what we had been trying to help you learn. Itâs like if i had been teaching someone to read music and they asked me what a certain note was and i simply said âwell instead of me telling you try to figure it out using what youâve learned.â You seem to have projected negativity onto my post.
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The main advantage of insinct is that ambiguous body splash gets even more ambiguous. If it were easier to clear more of the cast with light command grab setups then itâd probably be pretty crazy how he could get off his light command grab setups. Which coincidentally are easier to get because people will downback during pressure durinf instinct.
It does just make shadow command grab mixups amazin though
Kryll rush is probably always going to be raamâs worst tool. Shadow is signifiantly better now sure, but itâs gonna be a hard read due to itâs long startup. It still has all the clunkiness from being able to get stuffed while still having all the uselessness of being really REALLY easy to jump even if the rush absorbs their jump attack.
@SithLordEDP While it may be true that I was projecting, if you want to teach someone something, you have to guide them along, and scaffold the information from something they already understand into something more. You canât just throw them into the deep end and expect positive resultsâŠ
@Fwufikins One of the reasons Iâm having a hard time staying on topic in this thread is because I truly believe thereâs not much more to this character outside of what everyone already knows about his typical setups as well as some of the more advanced crossup / delay setups off of the heavy knockdowns that people have already discovered. With that said, I genuinely hope everyone here proves me wrong in that regard - Iâm just not seeing it yet.
You werenât thrown into the deep end though. Several people posted walls of texts over 100+ posts, you must have gotten something out of all that.
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Which members of the cast are not easy to clear with setups after light grab? I think you have to change the setup for the tall characters but I imagine you have enough time, no? To clear a Jago-sized character you have time to whiff deception + crouch jab, so I imagine you can just not whiff the jab, or do a forward dash instead of deception, or deception + âwalk a little bitâ or something for the other characters.
I was confusing it with backthrow my bad, off of which the whiffed jab i do causes him to land in front on a decent amount. Itâs actually that some chars are too easy to clear with light, at least in my experience. Fulgore in particular lands rrally close to you for some reason,and as a result deception makes all your options crossup. A microwalk back might fix it but at the same time youd probablt get dped for not crossing up anyways.
@Infilament because i pressed the wrong reply
As a small optimization, c hp can cancel into heavy emergence for a hard knockdown. Midscreen theyâll be knocked too far away but if theyre trying to jump in the corner its probably the best result you can get off an anti air or prediction
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He has a problem with it, doesnât mean you canât just continue your discussion in a civil manner.
Please stop continuing this debate here, a moderator has already dropped by with a warning and @STORM179 has been nice enough to encourage a discussion about this in the right topic.
Back to RAAM, any word on Coach Steveâs RAAM? Last I remember he shared some tech and said no more until EVO or KIWC, not sure which. I would really like to see it because everyoneâs had nothing but good things to say about it.