lol, I remember feeling misgivings about joining the Jago army as well. I do get the impression that Jagos who actually put the work in are a whole lot less common, though.
If all you took from that paragraph was a sleight against your inexperience, then you’ve missed the point.
Good thing i didnt.
Anyways im still for shago getting a flipout. If hes supposed to be the guy with all the mixup tools then he should have all the tools.
Who said that? Shago has good mix ups, but he doesn’t have to use a flipout to be good.
I think for Shago to be the mixup character that hes supposed to be, he should have access to all the extended base mechanics of the game. Hes already got a stagger and recapture, he should get a flipout as well.
Without giving an opinion one way or the other, I think if Shago could flipout into Raging Demon, these forums would crash every other day in ensuing the salt-splosion.
His demon has too much startup lag. He either can get smacked or he’ll glide right pass them.
I just think that he should be a character that has all the basic tools at least regarding how I interpret his design philosophy. Hell I’ll even take Surge flipout.
Shago is a high risk, high reward character. Sure, he’s also a “kitchen sink” character (someone who has basically everything) but even the other kitchen sink characters don’t have every tool. Each of them has their own advantages and disadvantages.
For example, we have 3 basic Shoto characters that classify as characters that can do nearly everything but have more specific tools for their jobs.
All of these characters have an invincible DP, Fireballs, and a move that takes them close to full screen to get in. They’ve all got normals that work for CQC pressure, and their fireballs generally keep things neutral between them and their opponents if they’re used at closer range.
Jago has an enterage of safe moves and access to flipout, at the cost of a really straightforward jack of all trades playstyle that can become predictable.
Fullgore has pip canceling, teleportation, and a stagger, at the cost of his meter gain and some more unsafe moves.
Shadow Jago has nearly full screen high low mixups, awesome cross-up potential, and a fully invincible dash that can be canceled into some of his best tools (including ANOTHER DP that can cross-up, his dive kick that can also cross-up, and a nearly unreactable throw which leads to juggles), as well as a free 50% punish with instinct. As a cost, he’s really unsafe and has to make gambles more often.
And if you’re getting hit out of Annihilation, you’re using it wrong. Don’t just throw it out, wait for your opponent to do something stupid/unsafe. Shadow Jago is a character that can make near instant punishes when the opponent messes up from wherever he is on the screen.
A patient Shago is actually, IMO, a much more dangerous creature than an aggressive one. Sure, he has more options for getting in and doing crazy shite than other shoto characters (unless you get really good with Fulgore’s teleport vortex) and he can ruin a zoner’s business in really short order if you use him right, but he can also outzone a lot of characters and bait out risky things like nobody’s business.
Some of the best mix up characters in my books dont have a flipout:
Mira, Spinal, Fulgore, Shago and Sadira
They dont need it
I can wholeheartedly vouch for this. I can’t even begin to tell you how many Shago’s I dodge and can punish because they like to use annihilation immediately after activating instinct; it’s the more patient ones that will use it after they block my golem’s ruin or natural disaster where I want to tear up as I say goodbye to nearly 40% of my own health…
Hmm… I thought Spinal did have a flip out off of his light sword?
Nop, Jago has a flipout with the light version of Qcb p, but Spinal doesn’t
Oh, derp. That’s right.
Don’t listen to me. I’m crazy.
Ey, crazy ones never lie, they say xD
Shago with a flipout would be way, way, way too strong.
The reason his grounded mixups are allowed to be this dirty is because a lot of important ones cause a launch, and he needs meter to cash them out, which he conveniently also needs to keep his best mixup tools safe-ish. The idea is that it’s supposed to be a constant decision making process for him which thing he prefers, either safety on mixups or damage cashouts.
If you give him the ability to surprise reset you at any time during his juggles, then you’ve a) made him much harder to break and b) done the Thunder thing to him, where he will now have a ton of meter to use for tons and tons of surge moves in neutral, or whatever else he wants, because he doesn’t have to commit to shadow cashouts to make his offense potent. Right now, if you get launched from Shago and he doesn’t have bar, you know you’re not in for too much damage and you aren’t about to get hit by the 5-way mixup, but with a flipout that will never be the case.
It’s not just about “let’s give him a flipout because that’s a mixup tool and Shago is a mixup character”, it’s about the overall tone and gameplan they want him to implement, and that does not (and cannot) involve flipout.
I’ll take surge flipout.