Shadow Trailblazer needs invincibility frames

cinder
Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f8ae47c02d8>

#1

Okay. I tried to play Cinder in Shadow Lords on the 4th of July and the most annoying thing I’ve found out is that Shadow Trailblazer is easy to counter just by throwing him. Like really?! That’s the most annoying thing about Cinder thus far and I believe it’s time to change that, if not give Cinder some invincibility frames on Fire Flash.

I mean you’re clutching fire for Tusk’s sake.


#2

That’s because the AI knows how to beat it at the right frame.
A person can also punish trailblazer depending on the situation (if a Cinder does back-forward MK (x2) I can jab him out of the animation.


#3

Shadow trailblazer has no invincibility whatsoever, which is pretty common for projectile invincible shadows. If you want invincibility, use your down+up DP.


#4

Just like TJ. Timing everything. Okay. I can see this strategy working in certain situations.


#5

Oh, didn’t see “shadow” =( My bad…
But yes, every shadow has different features. Cinder’s light dp may be a better option then =)


#6

The priority on the move is intentionally lower than that of other shadow moves, as is regular trialblazer. Normally the game uses a priority system to gauge when two red attack boxes collide together to determine a winner. The priority usually goes light>medium>heavy>special>shadow>unblockable, with all air moves decreasing priority by a single point (unblockables being the exception).

If you were to test it, the red attack box of Shadow trailblazer will lose to almost anything, while something like shadow cold shoulder versus shadow wind kick will result in a possible trade or draw. It being throwable is also a weakness, but you just got to be smart about using it. On the plus side, it does travel fairly far, and is a whopping +4 on block, which allows you to continue pressure if you aren’t shadow countered.

Also, Cinder’s light DP does have invincibility frames, but because it’s an airborne move technically it loses in a number of situations you wouldn’t expect it too (decreased priority), and I mean flat out lose. I’ve been cold shouldered out of it sometimes. Not a trade, a flat out loss against it, because Glacius’ cold shoulder is a grounded special, and Cinder’s DP is technically aerial, lowering it’s priority to that of a heavy.


#7

why do people want a move to change properties, when he already has another move that does the thing they are looking for

but even more importantly, why do people assume that because a move has a weakness, that it should be removed?

dps are easy to counter just by blocking. like really?! that’s the most annoying thing and i believe it’s time to change that, make the move unblockable

i type in lowercase when i am in a sassy mood


#8

Sassy Infil -Kreygasm-


#9

Wait, are you talking to me or the OP? Cause I’m not asking for a change in priority.


#10

Was talking to OP, sorry if I clicked the wrong reply button.


#11

Trailblazer has an awful priority as a balance to it’s mobility properties.


#12

It gets very annoying when I get thrown after going for a Trailblazer or even a Shadow Trailblazer, by the AI.

I can only imagine how a player would take advantage of that and dominate Cinder easily.


#13

Well I hope you don’t just go for random Trailblazers. They are unsafe in isolation.

Sometimes you can get in if you do a medium trailblazer -> up + forward trailblazer -> a button. Good players can realize that they can DP or AA me if they’re quick enough after I finish my trailblazer chain.

You really need to hit confirm off of Cinder’s pokes if you want to use trailblazer. Make use of his low hitting Inferno and Instinct cancel if you have to.


#14

Don’t use shadow trailblazer randomly then? I dunno, I don’t have to throw you, I can instead just do a DP and clip you for way more damage, or (more reasonably), I will block and then shadow counter you and get a grounded combo starter.

I understand that an AI opponent doing frame perfect punishes to things humans won’t do (like, say… throwing regular trailblazer) is frustrating, but that’s because AI in fighting games is dumb. We shouldn’t be balancing the game around what an AI does. (Also, try playing against the much more fun and reasonable shadow AI!)


#15

A human CAN’T take advantage of it in the same way. The AI can react to you doing a move which takes longer than a throw to come out and throw you out of your move. A human can never do this in the time frames in question.


#16

That’s true but a human might make a hard read and throw you before seeing your shadow trailblazer start.

In any case, shadow trailblazer is not safe in multiple ways, many of which are worse than being throw vulnerable (as @Infilament describes). It’s not E. Honda’s torpedo and shouldn’t be used as an offense starter for Cinder. That’s just not the way he is designed in this iteration of the game.


#17

Indeed it could be thrown out as a hard read, but it would be a VERY hard read, in that you’ll be leaving yourself open to big punishment if your read is incorrect. It is quite simply not the same as an AI being able to consistently react to the startup of the move and stuff it before it comes out.

If you consistently get thrown by a human in this scenario then the problem isn’t with shadow trailblazer.


#18

Well sure. I mean that’s what a read is. But in the context of KI throws are not more punishable than a whiffed DP. Still, it’s rarely the best option to counter a shadow trailblazer.


#19

These tips are hot!!! Thanks.