Ruin Ender (sans wall crash) - should it be better?

Okay, so I posted this in @Infilament’s Guide thread, but I thought it’d be nice to involve those of you who love to play Aganos in the discussion. :wink:

Do you guys think my idea, in particular, could work; or do you think it would be broken? Do you have any other ideas that you think might make it a better ender; or do you think it’s fine as is? Why?

Enders are situational, that’s what I like about them. You probably don’t use a battery ender when you’re full on meter, right? If Aganos doesn’t have a wall set up, it makes sense to not use the wall crash ender. It shouldn’t have a secondary purpose, because he has other enders for that.


I know he has other enders for a secondary purpose, as you call it; I just think this could be beneficial in a small (very situational) way. For example, I wall bounce you against a (regular) stage wall and can either a) extend the combo briefly (with lots of build up on the KV meter, like every other character) or b) attempt a throw that gets you a free chunk, wall setup, or reset into neutral - I don’t think that would be asking for too much, since virtually ever other character can do it already (I think Sadira’s an exception). The ONLY real difference is that Aganos can already do it without an ender, thanks to his s.HK, which IMO is the only reason not to do it - it’s kind of redundant.

I don’t think turning it into a battery ender would be a good idea though - that, IMO, would be broken.

…and of course we know he’s got an exchange ender (natural disaster), a chunk ender (payload assault), damage ender (ruin, with wall-crash), and a hard-knockdown ender (pulverize).

How about turning the ruin ender (again sans wall) into a juggle ender? They could change the animations so when there’s no wall behind his opponent, his flying punch quickly turns into a spinning grab motion right before the hit that throws his opponent into the air (which won’t actually be considered an actual throw of any kind, since it’s an ender - it’ll just “hit” instead) behind him. This could, again, give you more options to extend the combo (e.g., with pulverize) with a few more minor-damaging hits without doing much in the way of breaking the game.

I think you’re probably undervaluing it as a spacing ender. That’s no small thing considering that Aganos needs a little space and at mid-range has a lot of powerful hits. I also think that having the ability to smash people through walls is huge deal. It may only be worthwhile in that situation, but if you have a wall you are ALWAYS going to use the ruin ender. So giving it other utility doesn’t seem necessary.

I wouldn’t object to seeing it be a wall splat ender, but with the spacing it doesn’t seem like it would be that useful. I think the idea of adding a grab/juggle is probably not necessary (plus quite a bit of work if they want it to animate nicely). Aganos isn’t really a juggle character. You would know better than I do, but aren’t you always trying to get a wall set up? Why would you want to start worrying about juggles?

A lot of Aganos players didn’t really start using his walls effectively until relatively recently - it was a bit of a revelation for most, I think, and many newer Aganos’ players don’t yet know about how useful they really are or when the best times are to setup them up vs. re-chunking or saving them for armor. Otherwise, you’re probably right - it was just another idea that I had, that’s all.

If I don’t have any chunks/walls then I’m chunking up.

If I have the right amount of chunks, I’m doing pulverize ender (then wall placed behind after)

If I have chunks and a wall behind you I’m either going to do pulverize ender anyways to keep the corner pressure up or I’m smashing you through the wall to get the big damage and reset the neutral.

Personally, I NEVER use the exchange ender, even if I have a wall behind me and would want to put it behind them. I’d rather do one of the other enders depending on my situation listed above.

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Do you think replacing the exchange ender with a Long Range Hard Knockdown ender would be more useful? I call this GSR-Ender aka “Gimme Sum ROOM!!” Ender.

Maybe even a Wall Ender. Which spends a chunk and places a wall resetting the neutral.

I believe the ruin ender should at least give you more space since as it is the only reason it’s there for now is to use with walls and whilst that’s doable, there are situations (sabrewulf, Omen) where you need space to do things like set up a wall that the other won’t let you obtain due to their fast rushdown abilities. I also agree with the ideas of maybe having an ender that actually uses a wall setup as it’s objective, since setting up walls outside of a combo is near enough impossible with whatever character you’re fighting being right in your face. It’s such a shame that Aganos isn’t slightly less visually oriented than he already is,as I’ve lost so many match ups just because others can see what strength i’m using and I can’t attempt to counter it really…

But back on topic, it’s an interesting point you raise.

Setting up walls is easy! You can do it after a far s.HP or s.HK or forward throw or pulverize ender or s.payload assault or m.payload assault or j.HP or j.HK or… Well, I’m sure you get the idea. The real problem is people are worried about commiting to it in the 1st place and losing out on their chunk-armor. The thing is, if you can hit your opponent through said walls, you can finish the fight incredibly quickly - and I often do. I’ve been able to take an opponent’s entire lifebar in only 7 hits thanks to the wall - I’m fairly certain no other character can do that. :wink:

I know they’re easy to do, but I am, as you rightly point out, not happy about committing to it as I know (with the players I’ve faced, other than a few exceptions) that I’ll lose one or more of my other chunks in doing it. That’s why i believe there should be a way to set up walls outside of the standard command, like an ender. Also, ruin, not as an ender, but as a special generally, is horrible to use since it’s so easy to spot to the other player (unless you happen to catch the other player off guard). I know Aganos is like that all over, but it’s hard to get a wallcrash if they’re just continually blocking everything, even if they block low, they can jsut keep crouch blocking to avoid everything you can do and just either zone you or open you up during recovery.

If I’m not mistaken, can’t glacius quick get up after ruin and do his shadow ice spike thing immediately, hitting/punishing aganos on hit (and getting rid of any chunks he has)?

This has happened to me, though it’s hard to tell if I just wasn’t holding back correctly (maybe I jumped), or maybe pushed a button… But I’m not sure I wasn’t

Maybe ruin should cause at least a hard knock down, or maybe have less recovery time on it :confused:

It’s happened to me a few times. It’s likely a bug, but I’ve never been able to replicate it in practice mode.