Rate YOUR most difficult MUs vs Aganos, in order

Omen can react to shadow payload assault full screen with shadow lightning legs. It is good though if he doesn’t have meter.

Sure you can absorb the mixup, assuming he shadow escapes up and hits a button. This isn’t a guaranteed solution though, because you still need to guess what he’s going to do. Let’s say he shadow escapes to the other side on the ground. You can’t punish with shadow ruin (unless you guess where he’s going or have absolutely crazy reaction times) and you’re stuck into another setup. Is he going to do a shadow slide? Grab? Jump? Rashakuken? Orta, then shadow Rashakuken? Yes there are ways Aganos can get out of most of these situations but all of those ways to get out of pressure need you to have rediculous reaction time or a good read. Even if you do punish him, you have to (in most situations) use a bar of shadow to do so. Most often its shadow ruin that gets the job done. If you land shadow ruin on omen he gets sent full screen. How does he get in? If he sees you grab a chunk he can either try to take it away immediately with shadow lightning legs or he can use shadow Rashakuken or H Rashakuken without being punished. He can get in for free and then you more on defence again. If you didn’t grab a chunk he can still throw medium Rashakuken all day until he gets the one that he wants and go in, or just zone if he has a decent life lead.

Let’s look at it from Aganos’s perspective.

Let’s say you have a chunk and youve landed cr. HK.

You have 3 options:
1- Hit a button
2- shadow ruin/shadow natural disaster
3- block
4- jump

If you do 1. And omen blocks correctly you can still be on offence for a bit, either by using your chunk to create frame traps with armour, spending it for LPA, or by going ham and using the armour as a backup.

Omen can however to light Orta which has full invincibility and he can cancel it into shadow escape or shadow slide. If he has a bar of meter there’s almost no reason not to do this. Some characters can low-profile this attack (Wulfs cr. MP for example) but because Aganos is so big he kinda has to deal with it. If you get a good read on wake up you can use Shadow ruin or Shadow natural disaster, but both of those are very risky.

If you block and he wakes up with Orta, well at least you didn’t get hit, but be ready for the mixup.

You can jump to avoid the Orta on wake up but this is also risky. You can’t hit a button in the air or else Orta might hit you, so you have to either jump back or neutral jump. In doing so, if you guess right you get a full combo with is great, but if you guess wrong omen can anti air and start offence again.

Also to mr. Galactic Geek:

You said you can punish Glide with ruin (which you really can’t if there are rashakukes out)

I said you cannot punish slide (notice how I never said you said slide)

You said that you didn’t say slide. In an rude way to be honest.

I said that you said GLIDE

You quoted me saying GLIDE and denied ever saying it.

I said that you initially said the word GLIDE and I said SLIDE. And that’s where the confusion was. Not that I said slide initially but because you thought I was talking about slide the whole time. Then you say that I somehow proved the mistake was mine.

Anybody else see a problem with this? We were talking about 2 different things. You thought I messed up and called you out but I didn’t.

Not shadow payload assault - heavy payload assault, where he punches the rock into shards and sends them flying. It clears nearly all projectiles as far as I know, so shadow lightning legs wouldn’t be a viable response for Omen.

My bad your right. I even thought about it a bit more and reacting to Rashakuken with Shadow payload assault is good because it will allow you to get in free. That is unless he gets a fireball that hits you

Yes, but a couple of things:

  1. You kinda have to be happy with not replacing the chunk you just used, since you likely won’t get enough stun or knockdown to re-chunk.

  2. At the range where it would be safest to use, you might get about 5% damage. At the range where you’ll get good damage (25%), there are a lot more variables (what if he slides under me, what if he hits me with 2-3 fireballs during the startup)

If you have the expendable chunk and time to throw something, it’s probably better to use Medium PA because it will get you a flat 15%, has much less startup, still destroys whatever’s in its path, and can give you enough knockdown to grab a chunk. Better yet, you might as well put a wall behind him to convert into >30% damage.

Heavy PA would be good to beat out his shadow kicks from a distance, but Medium PA can do the exact same thing with less overall risk.

Not if he’s already shooting projectiles. :wink:

As for using PA against s.lightning legs, I find l.PA works better than m.PA, since the latter has an arc that misses Omen’s projectiles more often then not while the former destroys anything that flies straight or low, which is most of what Omen will throw at you (h.PA is a good choice, but may be too slow in some cases)…

1.) Fulgore- Such an annoyance to deal with his triple hitting dp and amazing fireballs that can destroy chunks easily as well as being able to punish u easily with shadow teleport if u do manual chunk. Shadow Blade Dash even beats his club swing and can then start comboing.
2.)Maya- Mayas basically playing Handball and aganos is the wall with what shes able to do with the daggers. U cant really rely on flicking on it depending on the range shes at as the 2nd dagger can hit u.
3.) Hisako - Basically she has so many ways to bypass chunks its insane lol. Counter which goes through chunks and straight to comboing as well as her normal grab and her 2 frame command grab as well as her possession grab. Did I mention her recapture as well where she can continue to combo as well
4.) Cinder - Inferno that can strip chunks away quickly. Probably the easiest thing for cinder to combo because of Aganos Size and can shut u down with bombs.
5.) Sadira_- Ambigous cross ups and widows bite that can confuse you and be an annoying mosquito to an aganos player as sometimes u can miss his AA against her if she is in the right sweet spot. The Club and Shadow Natural Disaster can help out with this though.
6.) Riptor - I put her here just cause hopefully that new bug fix for aganos where he can recaputure with his shadow counter. Maybe i can finally punish her jumping flame correctly.

I believe aganos has a bit more matchups then this but there probably not as bad as the ones i listed in my opinion.


  1. You can beat the s.blade dash by jumping backwards and using his peacekeeper’s recapture into a full-combo punish.

  2. If Maya has both daggers, block the yellow 1 and finger-flick the purple 1 - this will prevent her from getting the unblockable trait.

  3. And there are glitches that help her to boot!

  4. The best thing you can do against a bomb-throwing Cinder is get in his face. I’ll often wait for him to throw and use natural disaster as a start to a full-combo punish on reaction - once that works, they’re not likely to do that again. That being said, I do hate how Aganos can’t finger-flick them away…

To everyone:
Q: Is performing Aganos’ ruin into wall-crash ender now breakable with the new update? I ask because pre-update, people would try to break, but still get slammed through the wall with an animation glitch, but now with the post-update, I’ve had shadow-players break it successfully at no penalty. If this can be broken, it’s a HUGE nerf to the potential damage that Aganos can do (and even if it’s counter-breakable, he’d still lose the ender, as doing a counter-breaker would reset the combo and basically continue it.

They may have changed the opener-ender rules for it

It’s being broken on full-blown combos though, not just opener- ender…

The AI was always able to break that ruin-through-the-wall thing without getting the wall crash (go to training mode, turn combo breakers to All at frame 0, then do the setup, and watch the AI break it without getting hit by the wall). I imagine shadows use AI logic when they decide to break stuff like that.

A human player trying to break will still get hit through the wall, though.

…and that’s all I needed to know. Thanks, Infil!

It’s still a bummer for me in everything but multiplayer… :’(

1.) Even then sometimes shadow blade dash has been able to beat jumping club swing
4.) U use S. Natural Disaster to punish bombs? I normally use S. Ruin to get guaranteed damage

I find it sad that its breakable makes me worry using it wen i use shadow payload to ruin

Nope - I don’t waste the meter - besides, I get a mixup with the regular ND’s jump…

To be clear, it is pretty beneficial if the player can break the ruin before the wall crash, even if he crashes through the wall; he gets rid of all the white life so the cash out is 0 and the wall crash hurts just a set amount. I just did some testing in training mode, and the difference is quite a bit… about 5% if you just do raw shadow rocks into the ruin setup, and 10% or more if you are trying to land a level 4 combo.

What’s worse, Aganos cannot counter break this setup; you hear the counter break sound but it doesn’t stop any break attempts from being successful. Actually, it’s worse than that; you can input ANY strength breaker and be successful if Aganos tries to counter break it, no matter the actual strength of the Ruin attack (this is not true if Aganos doesn’t counter breaker; you can get a red lockout in this “normal” case).

What this amounts to is that the opponent should literally always guess break the ruin. If he’s right, he’ll save himself some damage (but get sent through the wall anyway), and if he’s wrong, there’s no penalty and nothing Aganos can do to make it hurt worse. If it’s from far away, I think Aganos MUST do heavy ruin to catch, so I think it’s literally a 100% free break in this case.

Oh and by the way, in my testing just now, as a human player, I was able to break the ruin and not get wall crashed. I think if you manage to input breaker literally on the 1st frame possible (like the AI does), you can prevent this from happening, but I think it’s pretty unreliable. But… it’s possible and I suppose you have no reason not to try and hit the window!

truth be told I only struggle against fulgore sadira and certain hisako players. the maya mus isn’t as hard as people make out.

You got any tips?

Yes, please - I just got demolished earlier today by 1 of the best Maya’s I’ve ever fought against using my Aganos (be on the lookout for IVThePeople - he’s a beast with her and had a flawless win-record against me for well over an hour earlier today; I had never felt so diminished).

Thats the problem with Aganos. His size and “death zone” can be exploted to death by (IMO) Sadira and Maya.

My best advice against them? Pray. A lot xD

I love this thread. :heart_eyes:

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