Time for a match ups thread. After finally getting a couple of matches with the entire cast this is what I think at the moment:
Raam wins:
Wulf
Thunder
Orchid
Aganos
TJ
Tusk
Raam is even:
Hisako
Arbiter
Raam
Jago
Kim
Rash
Sadira
Shago
Raam struggles:
Spinal
Riptor
Maya
Omen
Mira
Aria
Don’t pick Raam:
Cinder
Kan-ra
Gargos
Glacius
Fulgore
If anyone has any advice for his harder match ups feel free to share.
Put Hisako to even and it is good.
The devs have said that they think Raam vs. Gargos is a pretty even dugout fight on stream (5-5), and as a seasoned Aganos player, so far I find it largely in the golem’s favor, since he can outzone Raam, ruin him out of his own charge (into walls no less), and use armor to block many of his attacks and counter accordingly.
Going to have to agree here - at least from a week 1 perspective - Hisako/RAAM feels pretty 5 - 5 to me.
I dont know if I would put Fulgore as impossible for Raam. His Kryll armor reversal stops a lot of his stuff and it hits on both sides so it doesn’t matter if he goes behind you. It is a patience game.
How is Raam going to get in on you? He isn’t lol.
Why would hisako be even? Raam can punish her without having to worry about counter. His grab is fast enough to even go through the heavy rekka meaning all rekkas=grabbed. His emergence is big enough and slow enough to reliably anti air her without having to worry about the little hop she does during air orz that normally causes anti airs to whiff. And because his reversal is a projectile she has to respect it and can’t freely pressure him on wake up with the fear of her counter. While the match up isn’t too skewed in either way i just think raam has enough tiny advantages to win out.
For Fulgore yeah Raam can beat him if Fulgore goes in. But why would Fulgore go in? Same thing for Gargos, if Raam gets in he can win, but Raam is never going to get in. He just hops away at the start, flaps his wings, the starts portal punching. At that point you still have a chance but as soon as the first minion is out you might as well put the controller down.
His kryll armor makes him not take chip damage from projectiles. So unless the Fulgore intends to go for a time out, he will have to eventually go in. It is a patience game for Raam. Hard not impossible. I had a decent Raam vs Fulgore set last night. It felt about even to me but I also know a lot pf Fulgores tricks. So I know workarounds. If I had to rate I would say it is a 6.5/3.5 in Fulgore’s favor.
Fireball to delayed heavy laser will ruin attempts to avoid chip from the projectiles. It’ll hit you as soon as your shield ends. And it can be done on reaction to you throwing the shield up so if you try to throw in a running grab because you know he’ll attempt that, he can still react and just jump. The only way to avoid this is to time a backdash as soon as you absorb the first projectile but that means you’re not advancing on Fulgore you’re backing away which just makes your job even harder.
I played one ranked match against someone I had played throughout season 2 who used Aria. Initially, after being destroyed by a fulgore, I thought this match would be the same, but it was fine. Raam’s run attack with the krill armor actually gets him through the projectile zoning, except the blade assist (i think). She can’t just fly over head because of the krill swarm, raam hits hard and her body’s are incredibly week (one combo kills one body on lockout), and shadow counter was my friend. Although I had a relatively easy time, it may vary with the skill of the player.
I think Fulgore will be a long-term problem for Raam, because his zoning is among the best in the game and he has real defense when you do finally find a way in.
I don’t think some of the other matches will be that bad though. Gargos in particular seems pretty winnable.
Aria doesn’t seem too bad just because of her weakness to potential damage (instinct) and the fact that she can’t do Fulgore-like zoning things (and Raam has ways through multiple projectiles which stop other characters). If she is on her last life bar, you can just activate instinct and that potential damage will stay there forever on her, so you basically have 40 seconds to find one hit and you win the match.
Well to start with, Raam’s reversal is strike invincible, not throw invincible. So he’s got to guess just like everyone else without a DP on his wakeup. In my experience he is in fact quite free to Hisako once he’s been knocked down.
On the other note, I’ll test when I get home, but I’m reasonably sure that he doesn’t get a strict punish on heavy rekka with (normal) command grab. Hisako can punish jump-outs with heavy rekka for a full grounded combo, which means she’s hitting them while they’re still in their 4 frames of pre-jump animation. Raam’s grab hits on frame 4, so at most I think it would try to trade with HP rekka, a trade I would imagine the rekka would win. If Sako delays the heavy rekka slightly then I guess Raam wins, but this isn’t materially all that different from doing rekka against anyone with an invincible DP. Mash DP will always beat any of Hisako’s rekka options, but it isn’t actually all that common to see, just because mashing moves in between rekka strings can be tricky. QCF/QCB is definitely easier to squeeze in there, but again, if you’re just a touch late you’re going to be eating full combo damage.
Hisako’s command grabs are also generally more active than Raam’s, so she tends to beat him out in any command throw-vs-command throw encounter. He can certainly grab at further ranges than her, but if she’s in range for her own grab, you should generally expect her to win.
And on the subject of neutral, Hisako handles Raam’s “wall” a lot better than many in the cast. Her normals are long enough to contend with or outright beat his, and she’s more than fast enough to dash in from footsies range to establish her preferred spacings on him. Either of her command grabs will beat Raam’s running bear grab clean, so even if Raam can charge through her normals, if he messes up the read on one of those he walking into a fully punishable situation.
Don’t get me wrong - from what I can tell Raam absolutely mauls Hisako on her wakeup. The thing is, she pretty effectively returns the favor on his. This is pretty much the S2 Aganos/Hisako 5-5 to my mind, where the fight generally comes down to which character gets the momentum first. Either character can blow up the other once they establish their game - the only question is which character gets to establish that game first.
It’s actually 5 frames of pre-jump.
(For many characters it was 4 in S2 but the standardization in S3 made it 5 for everyone)
Ah, duly noted. I’ll definitely check it out then when I get home to see if you really can reliably punish heavy rekka with one of Raam’s normal grabs. It’ll be annoying if he can (because throw punishes are always annoying for Hisako), but I still don’t think it represents a massive point in Raam’s favor for the MU - there are already a few MU’s where rekka isn’t really viable except as a hit confirm, so this would just be added to the list.
one thing noted is that raam is good when it comes to cornor pressure. Cornoring opponents is your friend, he is a in your face fighter.
Hmm, well I guess the fact that it seems good from both the Raam and Hisako side of things means it’s even.
I will say while the zoning match ups are annoying as hell, there is nothing more satisfying than finally getting in after 50 seconds of blocking fireballs and taking someone’s entire lifebar in the blink of an eye.
Raam is the hugo of ki , every mu is a struggle
False, maybe for you!
True , Because I said so !