Ok, so just a quick question. Did we ever figure out what Aganos frame data was for each chunk he has in him? I know the attack data in the training room lists the info for his frames when he’s at 0 chunks but I was just curious to know if anyone had done the research already for his various forms of chunked up.
Thanks for any and all help in regards to this!
I don’t think anyone has yet. I think the frame data given is for 2 chunks. It says that cl. HP is +4 on hit, but at 0 chunks you can link a cr.MK off of it, which has a listed startup of like 13 frames.
Hopefully there’s some obvious trend as you increase chunks, or else you would have to find frame data for 100 grounded normals, 30 air normals, and 60 special moves.
I at least found that at 4 chunks, his fastest button (st. LK) can punish something that’s -8, so he’s got that going for him, which is nice.
I believe it was showing for 2 chunks, but we may be putting in a change that shows the data for 0 chunks. Stay tuned.
The testing I have done so far shows that the frame data listed is for 0 chunks. It says St.MP is +8 on hit and can combo into Cr.MK which has a 7 frame startup but only on 0 chunks, otherwise it doesn’t combo. Same with Cl.HP which is listed at +10 on hit and +6 on block (which I always thought it was 0 on block) and can combo into St.MK which has a 9 frame startup. I hope there is some sort of formula, otherwise like you said, it’d be a nightmare trying to figure some of this stuff out and I’d like to know if any @developers could possibly shed some light on this for us.
Oh whoops, didn’t see your post. Thanks for the clarification! I know it’d probably be impossible to have the attack data show information for each level of chunk but I do appreciate any and all help!
The change making it show data for 0 chunks may have already gone in. I don’t remember when we did that.
Confirmed internally that version 3.1 had the change. Frame data in game is for 0 chunks now.
Thank you kindly, always appreciate this kind of stuff! I’m just surprised that St.LK is a 4 frame move instead of a 5 frame move, that’s really handy for him to have!
If that “new” frame data is correct, I’d hypothesize that the formula for heavies is -3 frames of advantage on hit/block per chunk (and maybe also +3 frames of startup?), since it’s +4 and 0 at 2 chunks. I’d probably also guess it’s -1 and -2 for lights and mediums, respectively.
+6 on Cl.HP is crazy. That’s a +8 meaty.
What would need to be figured out is if the frame advantage stays the same across the boards for each chunk and the startup receives a penalty, or if it’s the opposite, or if it’s some almagamation. It could be something like attacks have 2 frames of additional startup and 1 frame less of advantage, or vice versa.
I know, it’s amazing! You can do a St.LP or Cr.LP for a true blockstring (I believe, I can’t remember if that’s how it works in this game or not) since both startup in 6 frames, or a Cr.MK for a 1 frame gap at 7 frames of startup.
Are there any plans to include a tool that would allow us to compare actual different points of reference in terms of frames in real time, kinda like you can in some 3D FGs, for example. Useful for figuring out tricky situations, say: oki after aa hit or juggles, and other situations that are reproducible, but don’t have hard “default” frame data attached to it (for example, given situations are height-sensitive).
Video below shows an example. Obviously, something like this is a huge resource sink.
…or can we maybe have a list of frame data for 5 different states of Aganos, at least outside of the game?
Right now I’m starting to record 60FPS footage and recording the frame data manually. I’m working on a spreadsheet that will have frame data for all of his moves. This is gonna take a long while. Would you guys just want frame data on the normals first?
EDIT: I’m not entirely sure on how I’d be able to consistently record jumping normals so for now, I’ll only record grounded normals and specials.
EDIT 2: Here’s a link to my work so far:
This is great news.
I remember when someone decided to do this sort of thing with MK9 (there was no frame data for that game at the time anywhere to be found). Eventually it was done for the entire cast, including executions, recoveries and cancel points of every move.
To this day it dreads me to imagine amount of work a single person did back then.
I think I know what to do to get jumping frame data recorded but it might be a bit difficult, I’ll try testing it out and seeing what comes about.
Also if there’s anything specific that you guys want me to try to look for first (e.g. 3 Chunk Stand MK) or if there’s something you want me to revisit (e.g. “Can you re-record crouching LP? I don’t think that data is accurate”) then let me know and I’ll try to get to you as soon as I can!
I’m gonna try to get as much data recorded before I leave for EVO tonight. I’m hoping I can at least get started on 2 Chunk grounded normals for today.
So far I’ve been noticing a trend at least with the advantage aspect on normals. Each chunk seems to make a light normal less advantaged by 3 frames and medium normals seem to become disadvantaged by 2 frames. I’m only on 2 chunk normals right now but let’s see if this trend continues.
EDIT: Disregard that, Aganos close standing MP goes from (+8/-14) with no chunks, (+4/-16) with one chunk, and (-1/-21) with two chunks. It also gains an additional active frame and keeps it’s 10f startup like the one chunk version. Neat.
Are frame gains proportional for all three “parts” of a move (startup, active, recovery)? Sorry if that should be obvious from your chart, just passing by for now and haven’t seen it thoroughly.
What the frame data has revealed so far is that usually a chunk will increase the startup by a frame or two, will almost never change active frames, and add a a lot to recovery so as to prevent Aganos from having normals to punish with. For example, St.LK keeps it 4 frame startup but has longer recovery so it feels slower with each chunk but it actually isn’t.