Punishing Shadow Jago

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Made this to showcase what things you can punish Shadow Jago for with this adjustments in S3.

You don’t want to give this character much after many of his moves because he is able to, at least, be checked on many of these or fully punished.

Side note, Surge Demise (dive kick), is able to be shadow countered.

Thank you to @SightlessKombat for the recommendation on the frame data.

Please note: If Shadow Jago is in Instinct Mode, he gains +2 frames on all of his moves.

Dark Demise (Divekick):

Light Adv Block: -25
Medium Adv Block: -29
Fierce Adv Block: -28
Surge Adv Block: -3
Shadow Adv Block: -8

Dark Drift (Slide):

Light Adv Block: -5
Medium Adv Block: -7
Fierce Adv Block: -9
Surge Adv Block: -2
Shadow Adv Block: +1

Dark Fury (DP):

Light Adv Block: -29
Medium Adv Block: -27
Fierce Adv Block: -25
Surge Adv Block: -27
Shadow Adv Block: -25

Shendokuken:

Light Adv Block: -8
Medium Adv Block: -7
Fierce Adv Block: -6
Surge Adv Block: +2
Shadow Adv Block: +2

Annihilation:

Window to Attack: 4+ frames (from point blank range to further out)

Dark Reckoning:

Adv Block: -3

9 Likes

This video is useful for the rare chance you manage to successfully block his mix up. He disappeared, is he gonna unreactable grab? Unreactable cross up dp? Cross up/non-cross up dive kick? Cross up/non-cross up divekick that’s awkwardly spaced so it re-crosses over and hits on the side opposite the one he reappeared on? Cross up/non-cross up divekick that whiffs but because of how little whiff recovery he has he’s already doing another divekick or a slide by the time you even realized he whiffed? If somehow you luck out during all that fustercluck and block something correctly, you can punish him.

3 Likes

It’s obvious his oki, mixup, and potentially vortex game are incredibly good. It’s his style, which is what MS and IG were going for, I believe.

That said, things like this are important to know because some moves which were so +, you had to wait your turn like how you would with a very experienced Ibuki player in SF4. Everyone knows her vortex game was top notch which made her deadly, I don’t see that as much now with Shadow Jago because he’s now fine tuned to be fair and checked on a majority of his moves, and also a fun fact, crouch blocking can evade the surge fireball :slight_smile:

1 Like

This is why I think he is abysmally designed. Almost everything he does is super punishable, and so the match up at my level is far less about good spacing, footsies, fundamentals, knowledge of the game, etc. - but instead it is about “did I luck out and block his mix-up”. If yes, I win. If no, I lose.

It feels like a MU for people who don’t like fighting games, and while at the pro level, I am sure there are quite good Shagos, in my experience (which I have a decent amount of since online feels like half Shago and half Rash now), there isn’t an appreciable skill difference between a Shago in bronze and one in Gold.

To me punishing isnt the problem…its blocking those moves because they are so fast and the dive kick rarely comes at you straight on, its always behind me and by the time I turn around to block its too late. Same with the slide. Rarely can I react and block unless there is a pattern and I can some how guess correctly that its about to come at me.

If using Jago this is great, but if your not using Jago…then this doesnt really help much.
Good work tough for Jago players.

I guess for Omen players on the dive kick bounce back Fwd HP could be used in place of Jagos fwd HK.

Shago is hard to block, but I do still see a surprising amount of unpunished blocked dive kicks, and surge DPs that hit someone trying to press a button (tip: if you delay your punish a little bit, you will block surge DP as well as punish regular DP).

Also, if someone uses annihilation, there is literally no reason why you shouldn’t hold up back, land, and then do fierce into shadow opener. Never try to interrupt it, never try to do a throw-invincible move to beat it, etc. You get a much bigger punish by holding up back and you also can’t mess it up.

4 Likes

I’m still pretty low leve as Omen (and truth be told, the moment I hit 50, I’m moving on to Wulf… Omen and I don’t see eye to eye on playstyles).

But yeah, 6hp works as a follow-up to just about everything. You can also get more mileage out of raw slides than you normally would too. Often he’s teleporting all over the place and a slide will cause a whiff. Plus you’re not taking that big a risk since his damage is as low as Omen’s(ish).

That said, blocking supposed to be the problem… it is why I wrote my tiny little screed about how poorly designed he is whether or not he is balanced. The entire match-up is based on whether or not you can block his stupidly unsafe ■■■■.