So, I’m new to the game but I’ve decided to record a ton of matches with different characters each month, similar to what @xSkeletalx is doing with Kim Wu. At the beginning of the next reset I’ll be playing Hisako. What I’m curious about is how you guys would suggest trying to practice hitting Vengeance.
Against good players?
Even when i EXPECT the vengeance counters i still fall for them if you use it after whiffing a move.
Whiff a huge special move on purpose, and people will want to punish you from pure instinct. ESPECIALLY if you are facing backwards. That will get them 100% of the time. (of course, if they dont go for it, then you are safe anyway.)
I’ll have to respectfully disagree and say whiffing huge recovery special moves on purpose is not something you should get in the habit of doing.
Practicing Vengeance just comes down to “will my opponent hit a button or not?” and that’s pretty much about it. Here are some common uses for Vengeance:
- To counter obvious jump-ins (force them to do empty jumps and other silly stuff to get around it)
- Countering ranged pokes (if Glacius is keeping you out with jump back kicks or ice lance, you can try to counter it)
- Countering slow, obvious moves on reaction (If Rash does wrecking ball to you, just pop high counter every time you see the startup. Same with things like Tusk’s slow normals, or Shadow Jago’s dive kick, or anything like that)
- Countering shadow attacks (Hisako is basically the only character in the game that gets a free answer to all shadow moves, and this includes all shadow counters if you have enough wrath. If Jago randomly does shadow Wind Kick against you, don’t block and shadow counter like everyone else, just counter immediately!)
You can use it on wakeup as a “this person is going to do an attack” guess, but that tends to work less and less over time, while uses for Vengeance in neutral tend to be more reliable. You should still do it on occasion though, to prove to people that you’re willing to do it so they will have to try fancier things.
Vengeance is not a move you PRACTICE. In order to get really good at using it you need to have an advanced perspective on what your opponent wants to do. It’s more of a Yomi tool but it can also be a set up tool. Hisako has unsafe buttons that can in theory make her bad but the vengeance will cover her if done right.
She’s a tricky character. I wouldn’t even focus on vengeance to much until you’re ABSOLUTELY SURE you’ll get a hit (let alone the RIGHT HIT). if I were you, I’d focus more on her rekka mix up and footsies.
I’ve been going into training mode to learn her spacing a bit better. I did do a little bit of “training” where I had someone just wail on buttons while I tried to counter. It gave me a better feel for the buttons than if I’d just gone into a match. It’s really just me trying to get a feel for her. I’ll spend more time with her mix ups though.
Infil is correct - whiffing specials is not a great way usually to score counters. The only special that you can wrath cancel kind of generally is possession (where Hisako sucks the opponent in and eats them) - any of the others is liable to have you whiffing the counter and getting eaten alive for it. Almost as a rule though, any counter is a read; there are only a few “practice-able” uses for it.
(1) Obvious jump-ins - if a Jago keeps using throw->pizza cutter, start countering that ish
(2) Reaction to shadow’s - if the screen flashes and you have wrath, a counter should usually be coming out
(3) During instinct freeze. A general rule for Hisako with instinct is “if you’re standing next to her when she pops instinct, you just got combo’d”. If they have a button out, counter it; if they’re standing beside you, influence them.
As you play her more, you’ll start to get a better sense for when people want to press buttons. Countering reversal DP’s on wakeup is fun, and an amazing conditioning tool, but it isn’t something that you will want to start off with. Proper use of Sako’s rekkas and learning her spacings is more fundamental.
We also have quite a few threads here in the sub-forum dealing with new players looking at Hisako, as well as tech and strategy threads. Feel free to poke around those as well - there’s a lot of good information in there.
Have fun with the ghost!
Annnnnd I have coffee in my nose now. Thanks @STORM179
Lol. I do what I can
Any updates? I’m curious to see how you have been doing with this.
Infil is right. Vengeance is really an answer to certain kinds of attacks, such as Jagos wind kick and shagos dive kick, glacius’ jumping HP, etc. Don’t rely on it either because if your opponent catches on to you using it constantly (which they absolutely will at higher levels of play) they can just empty jump into command grab and ■■■■■ you up. As a general rule, Use H vengeance counter on cross ups/cross ups when youre on wakeup if your opponent fancies using them (which they do on high levels of play). It’s a great tool to severely limit an opponents options against you, because then they become scared to really do anything offensively at that point. Then they start to try and make use of more defensive options like shadow counters, at which point you can just hit once, bait a shadow counter, then combo. Hisako is a very meta-game oriented character so always keep that in mind.