Power line unpunishable? Orrrrrr...?

:unamused:

Before I jump to any conclusions, I want to make sure that I’m not tripping. If there is a TJ specialist in the house, I’d like to know whether or not this move is punishable. I know that its -3 on block, however, in training mode I’ve recorded TJ performing Power-line followed by two light jabs; which is seemingly his best normal. The ‘no block’ feature is enabled in training, but for some odd reason when I try to punish after blocking power line, TJ auto blocks my attack even though he’s trying to attack me. Is this some kind of bug/glitch? It’s like a defensive OS or something.

https://cdn-e2.streamable.com/video/mp4/7g15.mp4

Maybe this is just a training glitch?

Are you sure you didn’t just mistime the jabs in the recording? It looks like your TJ is already in blockstun by the time he tries to jab. I recorded my TJ to mash crouch jab like crazy and it always hit Thunder out of the triple axe.

‘No Block’ was enabled in the menu. Also take note as to the way the directional input is going; its actually going towards Thunder. He should not be blocking the punish, but it’s taking on the property of some kind of funky option select. I’m positive I wasn’t mistiming my the jab in the recording, as my more negative punishing attempted were jabbed out.

“No block” doesn’t matter when recording input. This is true of, as far as I’m aware, every fighting game that includes recording inputs. TJ isn’t holding toward you, he’s holding away. The inputs in the input display don’t change if you record something and change sides–note that the input for powerline is reversed. If you watch the timing of the jabs you’ll see that the first jab input is after TJ is already in blockstun.

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Okay, well that part makes sense, but what about the fact that he’s attacking & no block is enabled?

He literally just explained that no block doesn’t matter because you’re playing back a recorded input, lol. Also I don’t get what the title has to do with anything in the post.

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This

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I must’ve skimmed that & completely missed it. Thanks though. I was in dojo trying to see if I could punish this move, because a TJ was giving me trouble using it with the fake-out. I got tired of trying to react to it. Jumping over it, challenging it, blocking it then trying to punish it didn’t work. I was looking for a solution which ultimately led me here to this little training mode bug. The move is -3, & I have now learned that Thunder has nothing in his arsenal to punish this move, so it’s best for me to block & just be on guard. Thanks guys.

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Yeah Thunder can’t punish -3, there’s a very limited number of characters in the cast that can. I believe it’s something like Jago, Orchid, Fulgore, Aria or something, basically characters with 3f dps, and also Raam.

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You’re probably not reacting to powerline if TJ double-taps HP. You can predictively jump (or on reaction if you’re far away when he starts the powerline, but you might eat a flying knee or a tumble into vortex anti-air or just a fake-out powerline into another powerline as you’re landing or…). It can seem plus when you’re first learning to deal with it because it’s plus (or at least less negative?) in instinct, so you end up internalizing a “don’t press buttons after powerline” lesson, when it usually is actually your turn if you block it.

The next thing to come to grips with, though, is that TJ’s cancel options off a powerline from midscreen or further back are probably better than your options for defending against it. So you lab up ways to stuff the armored powerline itself, which might beat shoot toss as well, but they lose to spin fist and flying knee. Okay, so you block, which is great against flying knee and reasonable against powerline and spin fist…and then you get grabbed. And so on.

The way to beat TJ is to stay in on him, and especially to capitalize on any knockdowns you get on him.

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Isn’t light sammamish 3 frames startup? I thought medium was too but I’m sure light is.

Light is like 8 frames, isn’t it? It’s not the fastest move.

Only 3f DP’s, hisako’s light influence, and raam’s shadow dominance can punsih 3f moves. Oh that and kan-ra can while cursing somebody.

It’s no glitch. I just fought the same player 6 times in a row… Thanks but no thanks for gold tier now having best of 3 sets, it makes life so much harder in game.

The real reason he was able to win was because as either Jago or Fulgore, powerline is not punishable after block. That and he can simply press buttons to cancel into a second move which you then can’t get out of. It makes Tj probably the strongest character in the game and yes, I don’t really care if I’m exagerating at this point - I’ve had enough of this one player getting on my nerves and making me feel useless just because of the character/style he plays - the constant overuse of flipout makes powerline virtually unbeatable as well given that you have to first see which side TJ is then block it but by the time he’s done that, he’s already canceled into his command grab. :frowning:
I’m not a TJ specialist but I’ve fought him enough times to know that he’s very much unpunishable in a large variety of situations. :frowning:

To quote the Arbiter. Were it so easy. TJ’s frustrated me since day 1. With a playstyle that doesn’t seem to really fit any specific tyle - he can technically zone you from full screen or near enough, he can recapture whilst at the same time he has a command throw and a way to avoid projectiles, powerline, if you can’t see, is basically guaranteed damage. COuple that with his ability to seemingly chain anything into anyting else and you have a character that can almost get perfects unless you’re just lucky and happen to hit him.

Powerline is -3, so DP punishable by both Jago and Fulgore. His powerline (blocked)->shadow vortex is not meaningfully different on the front end than any other negative special->invincible reversal frame trap out there, except that he has to spend meter to do it. If you play Jago or Fulgore and have ever done wind kick/cyberdash (blocked)->DP, you’ve done this exact same mixup.

If TJ flips you out, I’d recommend just dp’ing. You have an invincible meterless reversal - you don’t have to hold the next mixup. Just input shortcut the DP and mash it out, and if he tries anything that’s not block when you land he’ll get dunked for it.

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I kept trying to input my shadow DP but he would just hit me before it came out (don’t know if it nullified the move straight up or what. He seemed to be able to just bounc back, autoblock then punish without any trouble at all. That and the fact that you can just spam powerline (and I do actually mean that) and continuously hit an opponent, with it counting as a combo, is ridiculous imho as there’s seemingly no reliable way to break it either. Basically, it’s better for you to just play a game where you hardly break at all if yo ucan’t see, just because the other guy can just vary so constantly that you have no idea what you’re being hit by.

Well, there’s no reason to do shadow DP after powerline. The regular ones will hit too, and in Jago’s case probably does as much or more damage than the shadow one anyway. Your meter is probably better spent on shadow counters and combos here. The DP punish is spacing dependent though, so depending on how “deep” the powerline hits you may not be able to DP it successfully (though I think Fulgore’s heavy DP probably travels far enough that is should almost always work).

If the opponent is chaining powerlines into one another, then it’s always an HP break. As you say though, TJ does have other follow-up options in situations where he can chain powerline, so yeah, he’s able to force you to guess.