Potential S3 Balance/New Moves Discussion


#1

Considering the pre-Season 2 patch made some adjustments to most of the characters and changed or added moves, I think it’s reasonable to assume we may see more of the same before the beginning of Season 3. If that happens, do you think Thunder will be affected in some way? What would you like to see?

Personally, I’d like to see another option for dealing with runaway or zone players. I know I’m not an expert player, but I don’t think Sammamish and the new Call Of Sky do enough to threaten zoners, and runaway players usually have a way of teleporting or other mobility which allows them to get out of the corner and run to the opposite side of the stage.

I don’t know what I would actually want him to get, but that’s my general idea. I don’t expect we’ll see any kind of nerfs, since the floaty jump, slow walk speed and relatively simple reads of most of our specials are all pretty solid limitations to the Nez Perce game.


#2

I only have one suggestion: Give two follow ups more to skyfall(one for each remaining strength)

One of them can be similar to the original skyfall, and make Thunder advance forward after reaching the peak altitude of shamanism. Maybe make it combo opener, but VERY unsafe on block


#3

That’s a good point - I remember discussing that with people on the old forums, but I completely forgot about that. I would also welcome a change to Skyfall, so that it isn’t a mindless break, and having the different power levels change how he moves or what happens to the opponent could be really awesome. Maybe one of the power levels could give him an aerial dash with the crows appearing to explain how he is able to do that?


#4

Even better:
-L Skyfall makes a forward air dash, doesn’t lead to combo, good for air to air situations
-M Skyfall makes a down-forward angle, like ARIA’s M crescendo. Opener, VERY unsafe on block or wiff
-H Skyfall stays the same
If you are coated by CoTS, all versions are projectile immune until landing


#5

Remember Thunders old move were he came down out of the Sammish with a Axe slice at a downward forward angle? I dont recall the name of it…but he went up and then you could cancel out of Sammish and t-h-rust forward with a fiery axe slice.


#6

Are you talking about KI1? I never played it, so I don’t know what you’re talking about sadly.

Your post seems to indicate you agree with adding different effects to Skyfall?


#7

Yes from classic KI 1. Honestly I cant stand playing against thunder lol…and id hate to see him get more to his arsenal. but… I think this would be a good addition and better than that dang boot kick from the sky thing.

So yes i guess it would be an addition to SKyfall? Look it up…the move… its pretty cool. When i get home i can post the name of the move from my KI1 strategy guide


#8

Ok so the move I am talking about is called the “Tomahawk”. It is a quarter circle back punch move in mid air that makes thunder thrus-t downward and as an overhead attack from the sky. He also makes an Indian chant sound when he does it… “Awww-Eeeee!”


#9

I would like the old version of his CotS brought back and used with 3K (without removing the current version, although I don’t know how this would work balance-wise) - I always felt that it did just fine against zoners if used properly.


#10

The skyfall suggestion is kinda neat… dunno what I think about making M skyfall an actual opener (and presumably a recapture because it follows a DP launcher) though. That basically means shadow command grab can now lead to a real combo, albeit through what I like to call a “choke point” combo breaker (something you know is coming and HAS to come for any real damage, but is always exactly one strength and very easy to break).

I want to see DP on whiff special cancelable into other specials removed, and something else changed about Thunder to make up for it. I don’t like the DP whiff into upper body invincible, lower body invincible, or 5f half screen command grab mixup, I think it’s kinda silly and degenerate for his play style. Especially if shadow command grab leads to a combo opportunity, and he has other skyfall options for air mobility, this needs to go.


#11

Ah yeah the old Tomahawk from Sammamish. I remember that, and that it was projectile invulnerable. Only problem with that though is if they kept the forward angle, Thunder, a relatively slow powerhouse damage character would have a Full screen punish on a lot of characters, Glacius, Kan-Ra, Cinder, anyone who has anything with a average amount of recovery time. So there is a balancing issue there. I do like the idea of other options out of it but, at the same time it’s so much counter breaker bait. The only quality of life I could see for his Sammamish would be to keep it as is but, have the different strength of Kicks slightly change his position when he lands. Kinda like how Fulgore’s teleports are screen relative, have his kicks do that. You can light kick to give yourself some space, medium to drop straight, or heavy to drop right. Even that might be pushing it but then it would give him a few options for some setups. It’s really tough to look at Thunder and request changes though. He is the only character in the game who can raw 1 bar shadow you for 25%+ and it can come out of any block string.


#12

You’d never get it out against Kan-Ra. He would just sand spike you. It was only really good against a full screen Glacius since he couldn’t punish you. Most of the rest of the cast can easily punish it.


#13

Don’t know if I’m understanding you(Language barriers!) but you don’t want Thunder’s DP spam for avoiding fireballs? I agree with that, it’s kinda ridiculous seeng Thunder “waving” across the screen.

I don’t see if I can agree about giving Thunder a recapture. He is probably the most damaging character in the game, giving him a recapture… well sounds potentially broken. Since characters like Sadira will be approaching mainly by air, this can break the match up totally. Sadira comes by ground? Thunder has de advantage(rock/paper/sissors aka overhead/grab/low). She jumps? Dp and recapture, and you are in.

Giving Skyfall some use for travelling across the stage, specially against zoners(harder match ups for him) it’s fine, but giving it recapture properties its going a bit too far


#14

Yeah, I don’t want Thunder to be able to cancel the recovery of a whiffed DP into another special move (for example, another DP, or a command grab, or whatever else).

It doesn’t bother me that it can sometimes get around projectiles, it bothers me that it’s, in my opinion, just a dumb mixup. But I understand that the current version of Thunder would probably struggle without it, so I would prefer they change that aspect of his game to something else.


#15

I still think he should get a counter projectile like Potekmin or Cerabella, it would make zoners a bit more cautious about throwing fireballs. If they add a shadow version it could be him using call of the sky on himself and shooting the energy forward at the enemy. It could be in a form of a crow in reference to his old fireball.


#16

What about using the the old version of CotS solely to destroy enemy projectiles (it may have to be sped up a bit)?


#17

If it only destroys projectiles, then surely Thunder can be Option Select, even if it has faster start up. If it destroys projectiles AND act as a projectile itself would be unbalanced, so let’s look at it only as projectile destroyer: Few examples:

-Omen fires rashakukens->Thunder calls CoTS->Omen uses demon slide and gets him

-Kan-Ra uses swarm->Thunder calls CoTS->Kanra uses sand spike/If he has sand he launches himself against Thunder and gets him

-Fulgore uses his fireball->Thunder calls CotS->Fulgore uses plasmaport and can give Thunder his punish of choice

-Aganos uses Payload assault->Thunder calls CoTs->Aganos uses H Natural disaster/H Ruin and he gets Thunder

Thunder has brutal rushdown tools, giving him a ranged attack, even a limited one, seems a bit out of place for me, considering that this flaw in his gameplay allows some space to play to other characters that struggle when Thunder it’s near


#18

Tomahawk actually is not Projectile invulnerable…it can be used to basically jump over projectiles and attack from above. It basically just a special attack from above. You can do out of a jump or out of Sammish.
I think it would help him get across the screen faster when someone is spamming projectiles.

Not that i want Thunder to be better…I actually cant stand him. Just curious why they left this move out when re-creating him.


#19

I would like Thunder to get some sort of recapture eventually, but I agree that the ‘Tomahawk’-styled adjustment to Skyfall is probably not the right way to go about it.

Simply giving a Skyfall variation resulting in forward movement, and a potential opener if the hit lands while the opponent is standing would make me happy. If this opener happens, I think they could easily balance it by treating it like the back-grab opener/linker, which has a really high KV value when used.


#20

Bingo.

Also I was thinking about the forward variation movement. Maybe, instead, a version that deals the least damage, but deals a hard knock-down and then Thunder lands and has some frame advantage would be better. From there, you can go with a mix-up, use CoTS, option select your rival wake up…