I knew I would under- or overestimate a move at least once, probably many times.
My line of thinking was “forward-moving low crush hitconfirm-and-frontload-able heavy button, but is it minus/unsafe/safe/plus?” but you make a good sale on cr.HK. It also occurs to me that as Aganos, you likely value a guaranteed HKD more often than access to the combo system (for the reasons you mention, of course).
My 2-3 spots are pretty much based on my opinion of disjointed projectiles. I don’t think you can use Kan-Ra’s quite similarly (unless maybe in INSX w/ superjump-cancel? I’m not very familiar with Ra), while being both situationally and positionally limited. They do rank high in intrigue, though.
@SonicDolphin117 Kim’s MP/HP Katas certainly warrant a slot in the ranking. I’m sort of partial to Shago’s Stepkick, but the implications of Kata makes me pretty certain that’s another case of under/overestimation. There’s just so many good moves in this game…
@SoSRaGnArOk I can’t answer for anyone else, but I mentioned it because I am afraid being taken into the sky, and Fang is a button that puts me there. I’m sorta unfamiliar with the specifics of it, though. Can you low-pro with it? What is it’s block (dis)advantage?
Jago’s back+HP – Actually, amazing overheads are mostly just a thing in KI. I could see an argument for Spinal or Shago having the superior overhead given context.
Jago’s fwd+HK – Good, but I don’t really think this hangs in this list, particularly with the vast rift between this and overpower. Similar thoughts go for Fulgore’s axis smash, Maya/Mira’s HP/back+HP, etc.
Wulf’s crLK – A frame tarpit, with flipout to boot.
Glacius’s fwd+MP – A lot of Glacius’s game pivots around lance so this almost feels unfair, but then again, a lot of Wulf’s game pivots around overpower, so this is in.
Orchid’s stHP – Is there a better poke on a high-movement “pure” footsies character in the game?
Spinal’s overhead – Hard to see off a run cancel and/or with projectiles on screen, backed up by great low options, run-cancellable with skulls.
TJ’s overhead – Doesn’t superman punch look like a powerline to anyone else?
Maya’s overhead – Available as a cancel off forward dash, fakeable for a low or throw, great range, and is this even plus?
Riptor’s flame carpet – Turn knockdown into an hour of frame advantage? Yes please.
Riptor’s clMK – Not quite the tarpit that Wulf’s crLK is, but this button has just about zero pushback, links into itself, and is backed up by Riptor’s excellent throw range. Far standing MK is also great, and again, that throw range…
Riptor’s sweep
Gargos’s sweep – I was about to wonder aloud whether Riptor had the best sweep in the game…
Omen’s crLP – Probably not making anyone’s list, but this thing reaches absurdly far for what is otherwise a typical crouching light button.
ARIA’s stMK – I can see why you’d pick the grenade heels, but I can’t get past the shotgun knees.
Shago’s axe kick – The slight loss in range is more than made up for by being able to tick this off any normal, not to mention the stagger.
Mira’s stMP – This already got a mention and people know it’s good, but I think it’s still underrated. Probably Mira’s best poke, considering the range it comes out very fast, and you’re not shadow countering it, but it’s blowing up shadow counters all over the shop, which I think is a big thing in season 3.
Something from Eyedol probably still belongs in the top 5, but I haven’t followed his nerfs, so I’ll pass.
Lol. Oh goodness, no It’s a very versatile button, is active as balls, and has big implications for Sadira’s game, but that sucker is negative “a bunch” on block. It’s darn near unsafe actually.
Again: Lol. Oh goodness, no Fang has its limitations (horizontally stubby, pretty negative on block), but it’s a pretty good AA, a pretty good meaty if you’ve got the read on “not gonna block”, and leads into big damage for Sadira. It absolutely belongs on the list for best command normals, even if it won’t be taking away any prizes.
I had it present in my pre-list, but decided to take it out, although is one of the best low hitting lights.[quote=“Fnrslvr, post:22, topic:15747”]
Gargos’s sweep – I was about to wonder aloud whether Riptor had the best sweep in the game…
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This surprises me. As Gargos user, I can valorate c.HK as a great move, but it’s not among the best IMO. Is bad up close(negative enough to be punished by anything if Minions are on strike), and even at fullscreen, if blocked the opponent can get closer(or, depending MU, punish it). It’s a great move, an excelent one in some situations, but a really bad one in others. You can see 3, 4 being generous, per fight, never more. In some MU, the number is even lower. I wouldn’t put a move so situational as one of the best
Also it can be used for extended juggles, or used from MP in her target combo(MP->F+HK), and now it’s avaible as her combo trait, so you can use it during regular combos!
Oh great, overpower is the leading contender? Now, I’m going to feel the pressure in the random character tournament playing as Sabrewulf because I almost never use that move, since when I do it NEVER works. I never learned where to properly use it outside of true neutral, where it can be easily avoided or counter-attacked.
Really surprised to see Rash’s st.HK not get love. I would certainly put it in my top 5 buttons in the game. This thing is absurd.
Otherwise it’s overpower and probably Mira st.MP for me (blowing up random shadow counters is a big deal, it’s a free button you can press after jump-ins without fear, block-strings into shadow bats, etc).
When I was making this thread, the first moves I put were:
Double roundhouse(Jago)
Overpower(Wulf)
Flame carpet(Riptor)
Standing HK(Rash)
Standing MP(Mira)
Had to vote overpower. There are plenty of others out there that I like from a utility perspective or just a pure fun perspective, but while I’d love to see Wulf get a few more toys to play with, this particular toy is probably the best command normal in the game, and I don’t think it’s that close.
Yeah, I getcha. Take a look at some of the videos on my guide’s Rash page to get a sense for the extreme range on it, though (I use it in almost every video because there is little reason to use other buttons). Then keep in mind that a button that goes this far (I don’t even have to move from the training mode start positions to hit with it) and this fast is only -2 on block and is 1-hit confirmable into specials.
It’s funny, I don’t see it that much. Which sort of takes me out of the discussion of “best button” and into the variant of “most valuable button.” Sort of like the MVP in sports this isn’t necessarily meant to identify the best statistical button, but instead the button that is most critical for a character to play their game.
So, Overpower is definitely still up there, but as a component of Wulf’s arsenal it’s not necessarily huge. I would probably echo @MDMMORNING’s point about Orchid’s grenade. If you aren’t using this then you are definitely Orchid-ing wrong. Kim-wu’s s.MP jumps up in my mind here too. Is it the greatest button? Maybe not but Kim Wu revolves around it to a great extent. If you ever don’t know what to donhit s.MP and you have a good shot if coming out ahead, or at least not getting hurt.
Tusk is out of a lot of these discussions because after a strong debut in S3 he’s relegated to low tier status, but I would still put his s.MP in this group because it’s another button where, when in doubt you can kind of just throw it out without too much worry and sometimes it leads to great things.
(Just to be clear, I’m not arguing with anyone, this just seemed like an interesting place to take the discussion)
Lol. In my hands, Tusk is top tier because his simple, relatively low execution style involving good spacing and basic competence in gameplay works well. I haven’t played him at all since the last patch and I didn’t even look at the changes.
Although I was pretty sure about Overpower winning this, a discussion about the best normals besides it, or how valuable are that normals for their character was expected and desired. I have no doubts that some people which participated have already learned something
Over power is good I do like it a lot as a single button, but for me I would call that the best rushdown normal. Some of Eyedol’s buttons will keep sabre from using it unless he is setup or in position for it. However if I had to pick a space control normal, it would have to be a close tie between Tusk Cr Mp and Glay lance. Relatively fast and safe at a range. Aganos is a player here but he needs a solid chunk control game to really abuse his spaced normals. In a game with a lot of good buttons though, it is hard to pick one that is just the best. Orchids sweep low profiles quite a lot of stuff.
It’s a very versatile button, is active as balls, and has big implications for Sadira’s game, but that sucker is negative “a bunch” on block. It’s darn near unsafe actually.