Please Nerf Cold Shoulder Knock Back

I get that it’s negative, I get that it’s supposed to be risky, but c’mon, the only things that can punish it before he can block are throws and lights, but the space it provides him doesn’t allow those as punishes. So we have a Zoner, with High Damage, a DP and a safe I’m gonna move forward with Hail Behind me move that you can’t do anything about. You can’t DP it unless you’re Cinder. No ones DP has a hitbox out that far, Maybe Thunder can too but either his damage needs to be toned down to compensate for how much safer Glacius is or his Cold Shoulder needs to not push people back. Ice Lance into Shoulder = I’m safe. Hail into Shoulder = I’m Safer. If you do try to punish it, they can puddle punch you. With Hail behind them they can spam that all day. You block the Puddle Punch, and while the hail is forcing you to stay put, they can set it up again. It’s worst than Gargos Minions because your only option is to basically never let him use hail which is impossible. I don’t know why Glacius got soo much favoritism this last patch but, it’s too much. Gargos had his damage toned back due to his crazyness. Now Glacius needs it. Or just change cold shoulder so the setups and followups can actually be punished. He is a zoner after all, he shouldn’t be safe in the rushdown game.

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Even if others may say “Git Gud” or something along those lines, one cannot argue that trying to work your way around hail setups, liquidize, puddle punches etc. isn’t infuriating, especially in the hands of a higher level Glacius player.

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M Shoulder is -5 on block, making it jab punishable if distanced poorly and if your character has a long lp. H Shoulder is -8, making it punishable with a medium button. Everyone except maybe AIRA and Arbiter can punish this. The options you’re struggling against are two hit block strings. Shadow counters will work well.

Glacius is a character where holding a shadow bar is really effective against. If he is setting up a hail as a block string (F-MP, Hail). a shadow move like Shadow Windkick works well. If he is doing it in neutral, you can trade with a sweep, or you are giving him too much space. Glacius’ weak spot is just outside of his throw range, his slow normals and risky specials make it difficult for him.

Glacius was buffed due to him always relying on his specials to not get punished for using normals. It made no sense to be -10 on a normal just to bait out a shadow counter.

Gargos has his damaged toned down because most of it was unbreakable and lead to free minion setups. Glacius does most of his damage from lock-outs and counter breakers. Both require his opponent to make a mistake.

Glacius is a zoner in a offense focused game. It makes sense to has the potential to have rushdown capabilities. Just because he has decent strengths doesn’t ignore his large weaknesses. Slow and relies on opponents mistakes. Unless every forward advancing special was nerfed to be punishable on block, I can’t see why to nerf just Glacius’.

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hey, IG will patch what they feel is best for the game. I was just told aganos is the cheapest character in the game a night or two ago. Yes glay is good, he’s been a personal demon character to defeat and slowly but surely I’m feeling better and better about the matchup (that’s not to say I still wont get rekt by a high level glay). I’m getting better by focusing on what I can do, and exploiting weaknesses. If you keep your eyes on that, his crazy offense won’t seem so infuriating.

So it doesnt matter to me if they reduce cold shoulder knock back or not as I’ve found (at least currently) a few key elements I need to focus on to beat glay with my one and only character (aganos).

For aganos specifically

  • punish all cold shoulders with club throws
  • this is iffy cuz its tough to tell the difference in pushback for LMH cold shoulder … but #1 - punish his heavy cold shoulder as much as possible (I use pad, and put my lights as the shoulder buttons. that being said I’ve found that during cold shoulder block stun, if I crouch block and tap LP 3 times and do the quarter circle back on the 3rd light, I get consistent punishment status into full combo and outputs crouching LP) and … #2 - if they’re using medium, i do a quick double tap of st.LK xx qcbLP, this is harder for me to execute, so I’d prefer to focus on all the other ways to take down glacius
  • if he’s just throwing cold shoulder into cold shoulder bc why not, then make a read and simply throw him out of the cold shoulder.
  • stomp the ground on him aka use the heck out of crouching heavy kick
  • dont let him jump anywhere for free - NO EXCUSES if aganos is chunked or has meter (either shoot a medium rock, absorb and punish, ruin/s.ruin, or up roll, or shadow roll for recap)
  • shoot a med. rock whenever he hails (obviously cant do that on knockdown)
  • flick hail when possible (including when jumping)

RE-LIVE THE HYPE! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOgX2Hj-fC0)

In general

  • dont break ranged combos much (they dont do much damage, unless he converts them to a close range combo via cold shoulder linker or counterbreaker)
  • dont contest, maybe even runaway at times while he’s in instinct (also remember grounded heavies ignore armor)
  • know that the cross up puddle punch has upward spikes in it, so when you see spikes he’s going on the other side
  • if he’s just throwing cold shoulder into cold shoulder bc why not, then make a read and simply throw him out of the cold shoulder.
  • know as many ways as possible that your character can confirm
  • bait and punish his DPs
  • punish liquidize when he comes up from the ground
  • remember glay’s only full screen punish is with shadow shatter. his heavy shatter is not full screen
  • be aware when he has 2 bars of meter and either pressure him or bait him into using that meter, just block until he uses a bar, or be extremely judicious when breaking him with 2 bars
  • punish DP into hail with a shadow move

hit youtube, look up waterhorses, sickle, or other top glay players either in general or vs your character, watch their matches and observe what their opponents do to beat glay. here’s a couple to start you off:

gl dealing with 3.7 glay and who knows they may nerf it anyway. hope some of this helps in the interim.

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The only thing I’d change with cold shoulder is to remove those extra frames of advantage he gets from farther distances. I want to be able to DP punish those light shoulders but instead he recovers in time to block because the move has funky properties.

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what do you mean if distanced poorly, doesnt the pushback on block result in the same distance to punish?

it’s also pretty tough to tell the difference bw when he’s doing med or heavy shoulder. which is why i dont trip too hard on punishing those when there are other weaknesses to exploit. just curious, are you able to consistently punish M and H shoulder?

I definitely agree with you on using shadow counters on hail block strings.

lol myself i abuse glacius and i know exactly what you mean by nerf the cold shoulder pushback, im 100% ok with it. but then give him better zonnong tools. like less recorvery time by shatter and faster shatter, take the light away ‘’ that light who appear before the shatter come out" cause its a poor nerf to him .
but i aggree 1000% on the nerf to the push back.

Ok if we r giving flat better zoning than we gotta reduce damage somewhere … ooh I know … shadow shoulder! :smiley:

Cold sholder has around 3 to 4 active frames. Depending on how close Glacius is to his opponent, he could attack at the earliest frame (-5), be farther away and hit near the last active frame (-2) or miss.

It is slightly hard to tell with cold shoulder but there are a few tells to make it different. Glacius’ voice yells harder, the push back is greater, the block sfx is a lot deeper and distance speed is larger. M Shoulder is difficult for most characters, my main girl Sadira has a rather long jab making it rather easy to punish. Heavy is rather easy since you can tell with the larger pushback and simply checking with a medium button is a good way to apply pressure anyways.

L. Shoulder misses outside of ice lance, so if you see him use a shoulder after lance, punish with a shadow move. If it is faster then 6 frames, it’s a good punish.

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Hmmm. Good stuff to know! Thx! I wonder if you can stuff that shoulder with a jab … I’ll have to lab that.

lol lol NO NO NO NO NO baby , lol he needs something to stay dangerous tho, lomfao. no damage nerf bro ahhaha just make that push back away then he will be fine imo

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:smile:

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Are you insane?

Cold shoulder is fine, it’s not his turn anymore if it’s blocked and has varying pushback depending on spacing.

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Eh…that’s like saying it wasn’t Jago’s turn after blocked medium wind kick in every patch before 3.7. Technically true…but doesn’t quite tell the whole story. Cold shoulder is pretty hard to punish most of the time, and heavy DP follow-ons means Glay can often just take his turn back by force.

7 Likes

Never said it wasn’t a good move. But you can’t just spam it like everyone says you can.

not sure what to say here i do think glacius could use nerfs but you all focus on cold shoulder and nothing else lol

The only thing I think that should be changed about that move is that the unsafe frames should be consistent imo.

I endorse one of the following:

  1. Apply the nerf in question.
  2. Make medium cold shoulder -4 on block.

I think the current situation makes a very basic interaction very cumbersome without adding anything interesting to the game.

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thank you bro

My issue with it is that, Cold Shoulder should be a throw away of Glacius’ turn if he is jumping into rushdown range, but the plethora of ways he has to make it safe, hail, spacing with an Ice lance, or even off a jumping kick, it’s something that I feel should be more punishable. A Zoner, should be just that, strong while keeping you out, not strong by coming towards you. Shoulder should only be good if covered by hail, not good on it’s own. The spacing is very forgiving on it to be safe where you can block. But you can puddle punch, liquidize, or just do whatever since most things that are not movement specials won’t punish it anyways. But since he is spaced where their only option is to use a movement special, he get’s his turn back by default after throwing it away. I tried multiple characters in a set last night because he was using cold shoulder setups as 80-85% of his game and unless I had meter to spend, I couldn’t stop it. As Fulgore unless I can press the offense, I won’t have that meter anyways. I don’t have hardly any problems with Glacius other than just how damn good Cold shoulder is or can be. It travels super fast, and just pushes you that little bit where even Fulgore St MK can’t tag it, and that’s a damn good normal. I would gladly take -5 on Blade dash if it had the same push back as Cold shoulder.

I also never said spam Cold shoulder on it’s own, although you probably could if you space it properly, it’s the fact that you can do Hail Shoulder, Lance Shoulder, multiple times and forcefully keep your turn for basically as long as you want until they are in the corner where once again, Glacius also shines.

@HWSlenderCashew Cold shoulder is the move in question for this thread. For the same reasons they nerfed Jago’s Wind Kick, something similar should be done about cold shoulder. It isn’t the frame data that is the issue, it’s the push back. Some Character’s can’t even reach him with a Heavy afterwards. Even if it’s -5 Or -2 if spaced properly, that’s not punishable by anything if it puts close to 2 character lengths between you. He could be -6 and still be barely punishable. First you’d have startup, then travel time to actually get to him. I’m pretty sure he can block or puddle punch you on reaction at that point. Therefor it’s still his turn anyways.