Seems that whenever I get Orchid on the ground I still have work to do.
Meanwhile, when I get knocked down, all that happens is the mindless grenade setups. Get a counter off? No problem! The grenade covers for her. Empty jump? Again, grenade. Do nothing? Free mixup.
Orchid seems mindless as hell. Can’t do anything to her on her WU (because, funnily enough her walk speed is so high that when you try to crossup TK ORZ she manages to walk out of it half the time and block, and her cr LK seems to put her at a weird space where the tick throw doesn’t work with Influence) and when she downs you, you’re basically having to take 2 sets of pressure.
Filled with 1 chance breaks because the grenade setup is mindless, and rewards her for essentially not interacting with her opponent. Didn’t Riptor see a nerf to flame carpet for a similar complication like this? So then why hasn’t Orchid seen one, since she’s been “better” than Riptor since day 1?
Because she isn’t. Orchid’s offense is much more linear than riptors and has more easier things to shadow counter. Regarding what hisako can do to orchid on wake-up she likely has easy safe jumps. I know thunder and raam do. Storm can pbly give more but honestly since hisako out ranges her she likely doesn’t have to try to be on her on wake up and can just hand back and make it annoying for orchid to get anything started.
I would not call Orchid mindless, though i would say she heavily relies on grenades to setup her offense.
I feel that Counter > Shadow ORZ beats a wakeup grenade setup cleanly and stacks healthy upfront damage for a combo, even if is a breakable linker. I’m also pretty sure counter > light AD > command grab reset will escape anything you’d catch in both the corner or in space since the throw ignores a grenade.
Flame Carpet is a whole different beast from a grenade. Not even talking about how it’s two different characters with two different ways of attacking you, flame carpet aims to lock you in place and let stuff like crossup Tail Flip be a thing for an example. Grenade aims to add an additional piece of pressure for you to block and lets stuff like delayed rekka be a thing.
Best bit of advice i’d offer is that Hisako does not even need to be near a downed opponent to be able to pressure a wakeup. She can sit at her MP range and have a full suite of options to get her next bit of offense rolling.
I don’t really believe Hisako has any issues with Orchid to be honest. I think the fight is a solid 5-5, and if your shadow counters are on point then I think HIsako should win it.
Perhaps, but that’s likely due more to the knockdown options you’re choosing than to anything particular to Orchid. She’s a character in Killer Instinct, so she has to guess just like everyone else once Hisako knocks her down. If Orchid is walking under your TK-ORZ’s, then you’re timing them not to be meaty. This has value for catching backdashes or baiting certain wakeup options, but if you want her to hold the block you can make her.
If you can’t tick with influence, then tick with possession instead. To be honest, it’s a generally better tick throw option anyway.
Orchid’s grenades are timed to make her rekkas safe, so if you counter her you have enough time to end your combo and get out of the way of it. Just one chance into influence ender and you’re all the way out of danger. You shouldn’t be empty jumping on your wakeup as a rule, and if she does any sort of rekka pressure or the overhead it’s shadow counterable. Do you have to do a bit of guessing? Sure. But I don’t think Sako can be too upset about someone making her guess on knockdown :-p
Just down+back and try to react to the overhead or to properly apply a shadow counter. You’ll maybe eat a throw or two, but overall I don’t think Orchid is super dangerous to Hisako in this position. If she guesses wrong, she’s also eating a combo.
Unfortunately, I don’t really have any footage of me running sets against Orchid. Only fight I could think of for seeing high level Hisako vs high level Orchid are these matches from KI World Cup. It’s certainly easier to react to Orchid pressure offline, but the same principles on defense apply.
The Orchid I was having problems with figured out she could DP mid heavy rekka and trade in her favor (I’d get knocked down, she’d just be locked in a tad of stun).
I was referencing that she could empty jump while the grenade covered for her - I don’t empty jump. My bad if that’s what I made it sound like.
