Omen VS Cinder - Match-Up Advice

Characters Omen
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HOW DO I FIGHT CINDER?! I apologize in advance for sounding forceful but I assume everyone has this one character that they play against that they traditionally dont do well with. I’m here to reveal that that character for me is Cinder.

I have been busting my butt all ranked league to learn how to fight against cinders trailblazer mind games and wake up with omen but it all comes down to hard reads and gut feelings. i cant lock him down, i dont feel comfortable rushing him down because i cant reverse his dp motion mid air dash. I havent given up trying to find new ways to beat this character with omen but I need YOUR HELP (Ultra-Combo forumers) to solve this issue with me.

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Jab him if he trailblazes straight at you from the ground. Shadow counter his crashing one.

If he’s flying around in the air, you can try to AA with cr.HP. I find that pretty difficult though, so I would just block it or slide out.

And yeah jumping in on him is a bad idea.

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I like to bait out his wake up DP by knocking him down, walking forward a hair and then back dashing. they all like to DP on wake up. then Fwd HP right back into them and do your dirty work.

Watch for the over head air trailblazer…that one gets me a lot.

Keep the screen full of balls lol

Save meter for shadow counters and shadow form. You need it more for setups than you do mid combo damage as his damage out put is lower than yours…sort of… so you wont have to match the damage output like you would against Jago.

** Remember your Instinct gives you 2 frames of advantage so make sure you use both instincts each fight and dont waste them as you also lock out shadow meter and all that other great instinct stuff you get :slight_smile:

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THIS lol

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Unless you have a shadow form handy… maybe you make him think its a bad idea and then shadow right though his attack and then tear his ace up

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I don’t have much experience with this matchup, so I’m mostly operating on theoreticals here, but…

Cinders tend to like to fly around. Both of you are gonna want to get in on one another, but you’re both going to be hesitant and try to fluster the other into doing something silly or otherwise punishable. Cinders kind of got the leg-up in this department, between Bombs, Inferno, and Blazer. I would suggest holding your ground and insisting on being a nuisance with Rasha. He’s got more to annoy you with, but if he wants in, more often than not, he’ll commit to a Blazer to accomplish this. Take that opportunity, punish accordingly, and use either Rasha or Legs Enders (midscreen) to keep space between you, rinse and repeat.

Flash Kick is dangerous, and so by trying to keep space between you, you can minimize the opportunities he’ll have to try it. If you get him to the corner, keep that FK in mind, cuz he’ll definitely want to use it to get out. I would think that the risk of losing momentum to FK should be high enough here that you’ll want to take your corner damage into a Slide Linker into Rasha/Legs Ender to get him back to midscreen so you can be annoying with more Rashas.

Pretty much my advice is to pray for lots of Loopers, and to generally be annoying.

Probably not very helpful, but I tried.

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Didn’t know you could shadow counter his crashing trailblazer. :slight_smile:

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Go to the lab and test out how meaty slide interacts with fireflash (DP). Most forward traveling grounded specials will beat fireflash clean if timed properly, and low-to-the-ground moves can sometimes low profile it. Find an airtight meaty setup and record Omen doing it, and then test it out as Cinder to see what happens when you reversal DP after the knockdown.

Upside to this kind of thing is that it will also catch his backdash. Downside is obviously that it isn’t your turn anymore if they decided to block on wakeup (though shadow form might be an option to maintain pressure).

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Wait. Cinders DP is not invincible???

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It’s invincible on start-up, but it’s slow and doesn’t actually “hit” until after Cinder has lost his invincibility. So what happens when you meaty him with an active special is you have a hitbox priority match, and because Cinder is airborne during fireflash, he suffers the -1 priority penalty and his fireflash is lower priority than your grounded special. Result - your forward traveling special beats fireflash clean. :thumbsup:

Not sure how Omen’s slide fares in this though, which is why I suggested you lab it first. He (and his hitbox I assume) are low to the ground during slide, so not sure how the interaction might work out to be honest. Some specials are very clearly better or worse at stuffing fireflash (Hisako’s heavy rekka works for example, but is tough to time), so maybe this isn’t a valid option. But even if it doesn’t hit, maybe it will low profile, and either way it’s worth testing out.

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So it’s invincible until the active frames or before that? If it is then I definitely have an idea on how to stuff it.

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Light and Shadow versions are, but the non-shadow versions have a bit of a startup period. They also have their attack boxes sort of off the ground so moves that low profile can go under it and not get hit by the move at all, causing a whiff.

Non-shadow versions are all 9 frames startup, and shadow is 2,5. And yes, despite 9 frames being a lot longer startup than most invincible DP style moves, he is invincible completely on lk Fireflash until active frames, with the exception of a move outprioritizing the attack box on it, considering the move priority hierarchy.

Cinder’s options against Omen are definitely the favored in this matchup, at least in my opinion, so take that whatever you feel it’s worth. Between Inferno being able to neutralize your fireballs somewhat, the upper angled version preventing you from flying in at range, and the lower version covering your approach by slide kick, smart Cinder’s are going to keep you covered, and if they have shadow, they’ll try and follow that up on hit into a combo, since it’s a super easy confirm. Even if they are caught airborne, it’s not hard to juggle for a cashout or recapture.

I’d say though, unless he wants to turtle and force you to come to him through inferno, most likely he’s probably going to rush you down or try. An impatient Cinder is going to try and come at you with trialblazer, without thought. Air to air, j.HK will knock him around like a ragdoll, and is super effective against aerial trialblazer. If he’s impatient, remind him of the knockback properties on that kick.

Pretty good advice. Just be aware of shadow trailblazer and you’ll be fine, it covers better ground than most people give it credit.

Cinder is pretty + on block on ALL other his shadow moves, but shadow counter can help with that. Unfortunately, it’s really difficult to time shadow counter on both shadow inferno and shadow fission. They’re multihitting moves that hit more than the average 5 times most shadows do, making it difficult to keep track off and time a shadow counter. If you choose to block instead, which might be wiser, Cinder is gonna have the opportunity to move first, don’t be baited into think you can throw him off a blocked shadow trailblazer. That one is the only reliable one to shadow counter, but even it on block leaves him at +4. I’ve seen a LOT of people fail to realize this and almost all of them fall prey to a frame trap.

Do not shadow counter light third degree combo, EVER. It’s a trap. All shadow counters lose to hits two and three. They’ve said before there is now a universal 8 frame startup to all shadow counters, but the second and third punches of a light third degree break that easily. Every punch of light third degree has 4 frames of startup, you’ll never shadow counter this one, don’t fall for it. Medium and Heavy third degrees are more reliable to shadow counter.

If you wanna beat him, you’ll have to make him afraid of using Fireflash, and like @FallofSeraphs76 said, bait it out and after a few times of being mislead, you’ll be able to apply your pressure more easily. I’d also recommend using your shadow tracking fireballs on their wakeup to keep the best pressure possible, they won’t want to use fireflash against you if they know they are going to get knocked out of it by a fireball.

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Yes and this too… I like to throw these out on every push away knock down. If its a close up knock down…bait the DP… if its a further away knock down use the shadow fireballs to keep the pressure on but watch his shadow meter for projectile invincible wake up.