Oki vs DP/Reversal Characters

#1

Ok, so against characters without reversals (like Eagle), oki is a fairly simple matter. Light TK, Possession, and cr.MK provides an unreactable high/throw/low that covers escape options fairly well.

However, against other characters, things get more complicated, especially since not all reversals are the same. Some of them are invincible, some are not. For Omen, you can just stuff it with Possession. I’ve done a light TK next to a DPing Thunder, and he sailed right past me (lol). It seems like there’s so much to know.

Is there some unifying theory or a few categories of reversal characters, or do I really need to have different game plans for every reversal character? If so, what are they?

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#2

Hmm, I can’t offer specific character data. Rather, I can’t offer you an answer based on a unifying approach since I lack the knowledge of the science behind characters.

One thing I will mention is that it might benefit you to have different game plans for certain characters. I find that developing a universal strategy helps, but realistically, not everyone plays a character the way they are meant to be played. Instead, find those areas that they are most played as, but explore alternatives as well to help during the midst of a match.

Hope that partially answers your question.

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#3

Well, this is more a Hisako tech discussion. For example, I was told by some other Hisakos that there’s a setup to prevent Cinder from using his DP at all that @STORM179 likes to use. I was also recently introduced to the idea of preventing a DP by messing with their inputs with a cross-up jump or TK ORZ

#4

Medium TK ORZ will beat a L Cinder DP on wakeup. Not certain if it beats Shadow.

The short answer is no.

There is a good bit of variance between individual reversals in KI. A Jago DP is not the same as a Shin Hisako DP, other than they offer periods of invincibility. A cross up to mess up an input means little to some characters with down up motion reversals. Some reversals will whiff your character at point blank range allowing you free Oki while others aren’t afforded that luxury. So on and so forth.

To be honest, if the game did allow a single move, OS, special, etc to beat all the games reversals, it’d be detrimental. Kinda why people hate TK ORZ because it comes very close to doing just that. And in Cinder’s case, it actually does.

Reversals, in my opinion, are designed to command respect. Single, insular options that would beat them all would make them worthless.

Insofar as tech to beat such reversals, I’d wager the Hisako sub forum has probably the most depth to it of all 29 characters. If you haven’t look through the threads there already.

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#5

Oh right, I totally forgot some are down-up

#6

For most shoryu style DP’s in the game, heavy TK-ORZ will cause the DP to come out wrong side (this includes Glacius puddle punch). The only real outliers here are Cinder (medium TK is the better option) and Shin Hisako (light TK is sufficient). As a note, Thunder’s Sammamish isn’t invincible, so you don’t really have to bother respecting it.

The only reversals Hisako can’t really stop/avoid are meterless reversals that are both invincible and go straight up. So Shago and Aria booster body essentially…almost all other reversals in the game can be gamed with tiger knees or wrath cancels (for metered reversals like TJ’s or Wulf).

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#7

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but involving cross-ups, can’t Jago do the reverse input of a dp motion and still have it autocorrect to either side? Usually if it is timed late during the cross -up I mean.

But I can also see how the tk orz might come out too fast for dp to effectively work.

#8

He can cross-cut the DP to ensure one comes out (doing it to one side means he’ll often get laser sword instead), but it’ll still come out wrong side if Hisako times her TK properly. When you watch one of my matches and see a character DP and I go behind them for a full punish, that’s what I mean by “come out wrong side” - the character gets their reversal, but because heavy ORZ slides so far forward they wind up just whiffing on the DP.

You can do a delayed DP to beat it (Nicky often does this now), but if you’re delaying your reversal then that leaves you susceptible to command grabs or other true meaty options.

EDIT: also still wanting that Jago mirror with you sometime Tiger :slight_smile:

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#9

I just saw a Jago start an unintentional Laser Sword as he was about to eat a heavy TK.

Also, what’s your oki strategy for Aganos when he has chunks? It seems like you can either cmd grab or meaty heavy, since the TK can just be absorbed and lead to a punish, unless they were jumping.

#10

Those are your options. If I think he’s antsy or he has meter I’ll do more possessions instead of influence so can wrath cancel, but overall you can’t truly bully him until he’s chunkless.

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#11

Ah, yeah that makes sense.

I am free this coming Wednesday from 6pm-12am or Friday anytime between 5pm-12am. My timezone is Mountain Time. We are starting to close out the semester so my times kind of suck at the moment.

#12

Ok. Sounds like we probably won’t be able to sync up for a bit then. Best of luck on your exams though!

#13

I’ll play around 9pm on one of those days (or both). We didn’t get to do much Jago last time.

#14

Ah, that’s a bummer. Let me know your best times, I can try to work it out.

Sounds good, I’m always up for it! Remember… I’m brewing something out of the ordinary. Well, at least unordinary for me.

#15

I’m usually available from 6pm to around midnight in the evenings. On weekends I’m generally free for pretty much all of Sunday.

#16

… I’m just hoping it’s not a Sako mirror or Kan-Ra

#17

No to both lol, I actually hate Ra. Sako I’m indifferent but not really invested either.

#18

Hmm, we can shoot sometime on Sunday in that case. You usually appear offline, so if you see me on KI anytime just message me.

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