Really? Why Kilgore doesn’t have any overheads? (except for jump-ins)
For such low risk rewarded character it feels like a punch in a guts.
Low damage, high risk, meter demanding, poor normals, no cheap damage on shootings, inaccessible manuals and total absence of overhead. Is that fair you think?
Extremely high meter build, difficult to pressure on wakeup, very high instinct damage of the one-chance kind, a cancel on his potent zoning, combo and cashout ability on his throw, left/right shenanigans that can be unpunishable without meter, solid chip and damage with proper use of missiles and overheat…
Yeah, I think no overhead is fair 
He doesn’t need one that’s not his game. Similar to arbiter only having a sweep for a low. The game plans for these characters are different. It’s the beauty of KI not all characters play the same and the game plans for them differ as a result.
Arbiter at least has both high-low grab. and also few overheads. His grenade is much more efficient than Kilgore’s rockets on wake (which also can blow halfway up)
And where’s the damage? without PD you probably won’t reach even 50% with both shadow meters. Also this is so rare because you have to spend shadow meter on shooting cancels. Combos are quite breakable,
Also the only real long recovery and high frame disadvantage of Arbiter is his special grab, but Kilgore mostly minus.
The only good thing about killgore is his throw. imho. Long range and follow up potential. Other areas is to be improved. I’m not feeling like this 3% fullscreen shooter can be dangerous for the most of the cast so he has to come closer which is not so cool, because you can always block him low and prepare reversal, jump-ins are so predictable on reaction. Glacius is better of a zoner since he’s able to damage fullscreen without even spending meters or coming closer. Also his shoulder is mostly safe, but Iron ball or uncancelled bullets are minus 1000. Glacius has unblockable special, but Killgore even doesn’t cheap (which is weird since shooting counts as special)
I think Kilgore could be a really good (probably top) char even with all his flaws if Forward+HP had an overhead property. It looks like it was intended as overhead before but then reworked.
Killgore has a different play-style than the normal 50/50 type character. He also takes an imaginative mind set to control properly. If you lack imagination you will struggle with him.
Im still struggling on a high level to compete with him.
My suggestions is either watch a high level Kilgore play and learn those techniques or ask someone that has learned them. Or just play around in the lab… but the 50/50 game isnt Kilgore.
Kilgore is fine but needs a lot of practice and muscle memory. He has insane setups after throw and you can win round just with these.
?
OK, firstly, Arbiter’s grenade does not meaty as well as primed rockets. And secondly, don’t use rockets in overheat.
Neither will Cinder. Good thing they both share the ability to tack on PD like crazy. Kilgore also has easier ways of doing chip damage, which does add up.
I feel like this is more of a patience problem that anything else. Kilgore has plenty of ways to run away and zone. And once he has overheat, attacking up close is far less risky.
OK.
No.
Glacius’ unblockable is twenty-something frame startup and doesn’t go full screen. Sorry but this comparison is reaching.
There are lots of characters that don’t have access to a traditional overhead. That’s because their game excels elsewhere.
List of those lacking a traditional overhead
Eagle
Cinder
Omen
Gargos
Kan-Ra
Glacius
Sadira
Aria (except blade body)
Raam
Maya
Kilgore (of course)
Special list (Their overheads are special moves only easier to react/shadow counter)
Mira
Wulf
Tusk
Hisako
I’m sure I missed a few but Kilgore isn’t in a bad boat. Not having an overhead doesn’t mean anything. Aganos and Arbiter don’t really have much for lows, and that doesn’t stop them.
Arbiter has plenty of overheads but no actual “low”. The only one he has is his cr.mk and he can’t even get a combo without a grenade which is very situational and predictable. Arbiter doesn’t have high low mixups 90% of the game.
Where’s the damage without Pd? Then add pd. He has a wide variety of ways to tackle on pd. I don’t even understand the comparison of Kilgore and Arbiter. They play nothing alike.
So he’s kinda like Cammy… Sweet.
Arbiter has “no meaningful low” but every time he lands cr MK xx rush he gets like 9 or 10% damage. No combo but that adds up and will eventually force you to block low.
As for Kilgore, he needs to have no overhead because his gameplan as a zoner is so incredibly strong that he can’t also be a fantastic rushdown character. In instinct, he can play a pretty strong game between attack and throw, due to overheat giving him so much damage on throws, and that’s good enough for his character archetype.
If fwd HP was an overhead at 12 frames or whatever that is, he’d be super ridiculous.
Yeah I kind of understand what you mean. What I meant was compared to the rest of the cast. Jago for example can turn an overhead into a full combo and te same with his low. Arbiter only gets a guaranteed small chunk of damage(that still exists) unless he uses more meter to cancel into shield(not worth it most of the time) or has a grenade which is good but also a bit predictable for when Arbiter will do the low. It kind of functions like an overhead from SF. Small junk of damage but you can’t just let yourself get hit with it all the time.
Kilgore’s zoning tools are so good I really don’t think he needs an overhead. He can easily win matches with a mix of rockets and guns only.
When you are at full screen, aim MK rockets at opponents head, this way they will cover LITERALLY 70% of the screen, if they wont hit enemy, they will explode at crosshair, and splash damage will hit opponent who somehow managed to jump over rockets.
Did I mention MP guns deny any attempt to jump over aforementioned rockets?
And when you get overheated, your moves are safe on block.
AND even if enemy gets past this minefield, Kilgore still has 3kicks whiffmaker move and insanely strong and easy throw setups.
Kilgore is strong af.
Okey… Zoning tools are strong compared to the most of the cast
But what about close range game?
No overhead. ok we have a good throw though.
But since this character mostly unsafe it’s so hard to land a manual. I’ve found only those: starter metal ball and fwd+HP head thing. Both are starters, but you can’t manual after a ball or shooter inside the combo. It’s always an auto. So Kilgore mostly hits twice between linkers. Why is that so? Will manuals (like every other char has) be also too good for him?
You absolutely can manual after metal ball. I do it all the time. LP, LK, MK, HK, MP all work fine after metal ball. Chain gun dash can be tricky on the timing but its possible. I suggest using kick manuals first to get the timing down.
you’re right. I was able to drop LK (and crouching LK) after metal ball linker. but not MK.
then the reason of the problem just popped up. I was using light version of metal ball linker. And it’s impossible to land medium or heavy manual after that.
Thanks for the info.
such a nice and elegant way to limit heavy manuals after medium metal ball linker. You can’t land HK and HP manuals after medium ball. and also heavy ball is an ender.
So i’ve found light and medium linkers but not heavy. Could you show your HK manual please?
If you hold down the button, you can do a heavy linker which allows you to do heavy manuals.
yeah. I’ve already figured that out. Thanks!
Finally I feel like I can vary my game
You can do all 3 manual strengths after a shadow linker. Shadow linker to manual is the best place to practice manuals. Get that timing down on all 3 strengths and all 6 buttons…then move on to doing all 6 after heavy linkers, then 4 after medium linkers, then the 2 lights after light linkers.
Holding down the button for a milli second gets you a heavy linker. remember you dont have to hold it down the entire linker animation…once the animation has begun you can move to a new button in preparation of your next move.
Also when doing heavy manuals and some medium manuals do not hold forward or back wards… you can end up getting the command moves when that close to your opponent. Unless you want the command move as a manual.
Also Kilgore doesn’t have a flipout attack. I’m not 100% sure but every other character i’ve tried has flipout to stop the juggle fast. He still doesn’t need it?