I agree that jumping over and over is a lazy but strong offense that is pretty annoying to see in KI. There is an OS that helps against it, though. In high block stun situations like a heavy jump in, you can OS a throw tech very early in the block stun. If you do it correctly, a throw tech will only come out if they try to throw you, but if they don’t throw and instead jump or continue pressure, you won’t end up whiffing a throw, and will instead be able to block the pressure or anti-air the next jump. If the defender uses this effectively and the offensive player adapts, then you would have more interesting and diversified offense.
Does that OS work in other blockstun->throw/throw bait scenarios as well? Say, Spinal med skull->run->stuff, or Fulgore meaty fireball->teleport->laser/throw mixup?
It should, because I think inputting tech even during block stun protects you for n frames, whatever the tech window is. However it will lose to delayed throws (probably even by just 1 or 2 frames non-meaty) so I don’t think it’s too foolproof.
No one really keen on this idea huh.
I can understand that but… Are you guys really sure this change would make offensive grab attempts THAT much stronger? It would mainly benefit the techer, slightly. I’m talking about one or two frames here. Sure it would mean that the “reckless” techer would be able to DP the jump, but I think that’s a punish the jumper can straight up have for not applying a smarter offense game.
How would grabs be that much stronger for the offensive player? I can imagine two scenarios:
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When the defender neutral jumps the grab, which I see no reason why anybody would do except against cmd grab characters.
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When the defender backdashes the grab. Here I can see a problem; the thrower could recover too quickly and maybe keep up the offensive game. Still though, I don’t think it would be too bad at all.
I believe this small buff would just be benificial in defensive situations and not in offensive ones. So you guys saying “You wanna make these vortex moves even stronger?” - I don’t think that’s really what happens here. The defender who techs won’t connect the throw anyway, if the offensive player plays right.
Exactly… shimmying is something people rarely go for in this game. But that’s not because that’s just their taste, is it… it’s because it isn’t often worth it, say after a blocked jumpin, when just jumping again can be so much more effective.
Hmm this confuses me. Are you saying it’s common to see the defender neutral jumping on defense? Imagine this blocked jumpin again; what will they do? Probably tech, shadow counter, DP, backdash, or block. Neutral jump? Well maybe vs cmd grabs but rarely otherwise. Now, an extra jumpin will often make the DP whiff, it will punish the grab, it will also punish a shadow counter, and also a backdash. I just thought it would be nice if it didn’t always catch all of this all the time because it makes KI offense look so… derpy! When we could see more grounded interesting offense. You say these grounded normals are strong (which they are) but I find that we see them too rarely because of how dangerous shadow counters are, and just jumping will punish that shadow counter and also grab and… everything.
I just want there to be a little less reason to go for this jumpin offense approach.
My problem isn’t at all “Oh ■■■■ I can’t do anything vs this AAARGHHH”… that’s not my issue. The balancing in the game isn’t the problem I’m pointing out, it’s more what this phenomenon makes the game look like and what it does to the grounded offense game. I know I can stay patient and AA, which I agree is nice to see when people do… I just thought maybe it would be more fun if all these extra jumps just lead to another blocked jumpin (that is, another mindgame after), instead of a full bloody punish. I just find it so boring! LAZY offense!
I wanna see shimmies and frame traps beat tech attempts, not all these jumps. 
Then again, this is KI and not SF.
And not every character has a fast jump.
It was just a thought…
Oh well!
(btw another thing I would like to see is a slight damage reduction on grabs, I think they often hurt a bit too much)
It works better for long periods of blockstun. I know it works for normals like overpower and Arbiter’s close MK. For Spinal’s medium skull, you need to do it on first 1-2 frames, which means you can’t really react to blocking it first. It’s a lot easier for a jump in, because you have like 40 frames to react to being jumped on. You’ll also beat empty jump low or throw.
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Gotcha. You continue to be the homie - glad to see you back on here! This will help me deal with Wulf and overpower at least a bit better…holding that 50/50 every time you block it is pretty annoying 
I totally agree with you on the jumping in this game being far too strong. All they need to do is have a method of reducing the use of jumping, or even better, a universal anti-air. This would allow for characters to hit in a hitbox that would keep players from obssessing, as they currently do, over jumping around the screen.
It’s a shame that the normal game has been toned down to “mash jab if they get near you to punish pretty much anything” or “juse the longest range thing you have to puke out of everything like Street Fighter V” in certain cases.
I mean maybe it’s just me as a player with no sight, But I honestly feel like players who jump are often rewarded far too much in fighting games, including Injustice 2, Mortal Kombat X, Marvel VS Capcom, and KI, to name but a few.
Oh well, we’ll have to learn to work with it I reckon, though it’s not ideal in the majority of situations.
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Rash and Omen can throw with very little risk in my experience. Rash can just keep using tongue to get in and out, as well as wrecking ball which hasn’t, as far as I recall, been changed for a while, and Omen just has to throw, get fireballs up and keep slide pressure on you to avoid most punish attempts save for an invincible move. Just remembering what I’ve seen before really.
If there are ways to work around thouse though, please let me know. 
Tongue isn’t safe. It’s -5 on block. You play fulgore correct? Any time you block tongue just dp him. Omen might be tougher for you since you have to recognize his fireball patterns.
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Jumping is you taking your hand off of blocking for a full second. It’s good in certain situations but not really that good overall. I imagine jumping is one of those things that has the least audio cue and requires the most visual help to deal with, though, which is probably why it seems so strong to you.
Omen’s slide is also negative on block (not punishable if using the light version), but he either has to spend meter on shadow form or do something silly with Orda Shield to prevent you from taking your turn back there.
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