I love the new flipout for combo breakers, it feels way more fair to have the game back to neutral than to flip the flow to the defendant now getting a setup. Having said that I believe in some specific cases we have again a problem S2 tried to fix for a few characters: safe juggles after enders and similar situations.
Let’s use Glacius as an example. In S1 after his ender you could do forward MP for a lance juggle and counter break. This was a pretty much safe counter breaker as even if you missed you where too far away for any punish. S2 removed that with counter breakers always positioning you in an unsafe state.
Comes S3 and we have a similar problem but not as serious. Some moves are like the “icing in the cake”, like Tusk’s UP+HP after a suplex. They are VERY minus so even if they hit there is very little you can do and the only benefit seems to be that your opponent will have a little white bar left for the possibility of you starting a combo right after. If your opponent does combo break you then… so what? You still do damage and you’re still back to neutral in pretty much the same situation you where in, since your move was so minus on hit in the first place. The only drawback seems to be that now the white bar is gone.
Hell, you might even have a good read and counter break his atempt! Thou I admit in this case the risk reward is back into balance since this is a very risk move on your part.
Am I missing something? Why would anyone NOT do Tusk’s UP+HP after a hard knockdown? His is just an example, maybe there are some other moves where being combo broken isn’t as bad?
I honestly have no idea. Every time a Tusk knocks you down and doesn’t do it, I’m pretty sure a little baby unicorn somewhere dies.
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In the arms of the angel
Fly away from here
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I’d wait a little till first. As for me…loving the flip out CB. Gotta play that nuetral game. It’s where ARIA shines the most.
From what I’ve seen with my Day 1 Tusk, doing Skewer is usually the best thing to do, but when it’s broken I end up losing a lot of positioning that I have to gain back. I have to close the distance, then fine-tune my spacing back into that sweet spot where the edge of my St HP doesn’t whiff, all against an uncooperative opponent. It definitely doesn’t feel like “eh, whatever” unless I’m closing out the round.
The added time that you gain from not doing a Skewer on a throw opens up some really good setups. For example, you can get in close and charge a back+HP close to maximum (where it’s unblockable) to bait a wakeup while you backdash out of the charge… or you could just charge it all the way if they don’t have a good wakeup.
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Won’t the backdash pass through that?
I’m no so much having an issue with the flip out feature more so than having trouble with Tusk Up+HP. How do I recover or counter that? I play as TJ Combo and a couple of times I have lost to that move (that’s the move where he dives down with his sword right?). Even my instinct where I get a comeback is useless because I have been hard knocked down, start my comeback animation and boom tusk drops the Up+HP so I didn’t even get a chance to use my second wind. Is that move blockable? Can I roll out of it? How do I avoid it because as of now you can’t after a hard knock down and it does massive damage for such a simple move.
Not very well, I’d assume. It covers a huge area, and I think you can hold it past the opponent’s wakeup frame. I might be completely wrong, but it’s worked pretty well for Day 1 purposes, and it looks like it can be worth passing up the Skewer.
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I see. Well I guess I got one more thing to add to my list of “things to counter”.
This is not really a problem with flipout breakers, though. That problem would exist in S2, if Tusk was there.
Doing Skewer and getting broken removes the white life and sends Tusk full screen, so he has to get back in again (as LeoFerreis said). I mean, it’s not the end of the world but it’s certainly not nothing either. I think doing Skewer by default is a pretty good option, though. You get good damage and can counter break one out of every 4 or 5 to make sure people are scared.
And yeah, I bet people will find some tricky throw set plays that require you never to go for Skewer after a throw. But you’ll probably go for Skewer after other knockdowns (like fwd+MP crossup) still, most of the time. Although… I imagine if you have to make a big comeback, you probably won’t go for Skewer that much? Suppose you have a pixel of life left and Fulgore has all his 2nd life bar. I would much rather stay close to Fulgore than get broken and be full screen where I’m pretty much dead for sure. Maybe I want to try and land some other pokes and bait a DP and get a real punish where I can be put in a situation where I can legitimately win the match.
Anyway, the real question is whether flipout breakers benefits some characters more than others, and I think the answer is probably yes. Aganos, for sure, benefits from them, and zoning characters in general probably do as well. But eh, S1 breakers and S2 breakers also gave benefits to some characters more than others, so this is nothing new. Their goal is probably to minimize how breakers impact the fight as best they can and I think flipout breakers probably do that better than any other idea so far.
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Add to the fact to air breakers sent people flying across the screen regardless. that hasn’t changed for S3. there’s always going to be a system mechanic that benefits at least one character more then the others. That kinda just falls into play.
Thanks guys for the insightful answers. I think it isn’t really equally beneficial to all cast so it’s one extra tool the devs have to balance things.
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