yea i understand i also got what keith said, but maby there is another problem here then, fulgore is a character that revolves allot on spending meter for hes setups and utility, but to be able to use that utility you need allot of meter gain and that is where hes combo trait the triples come in, or atleast thats what i feel the original idea about them where. The tripples will give you that extra edge of gaining meter to be able to use all youre tools and setups. But as it is now i feel like fulgores tool is the auto double and hes manual is hes normal combo game. Yes fulgore actualy gains something from performing a manual but hes also a totaly different character from the others. Hes only way of getting meter is from punshing people. In the end the fact that he gains something from performing a manual realy isnt gaining much at all since hes not gaining meter from ender or blocking/getting hit, its just in hes terms a less affective way of gaining hes meter.
Fulgores punishement for using a manual would be âequalâ to another character getting less meter from blocking low instead of high since its often less of a risk to block low than high, as keith and you would say - he still gains meter from blocking low so he still benefits from it⊠so its not a loss?
This is false. He gains meter for doing NOTHING. He simply gains it faster for doing certain things and slower for doing other things. Your statement isnât even true for every other character either, since they can also get meter via battery enders. If anything, that might be what Fulgore needs - a batter ender. Even then, many may say that that would be OP, and Iâd be inclined to agree.
i already explained this, and read betwen the ligns, a battery ender would probably do more for fulgore than editing the spin speed on manuals and doubles. chill im not asking for much, fulgore is fine i just feel some things are unfair considering how other chars work
Fulgore has battery Enders, but they donât work, they donât scale based on ended level. Fulgore does gain meter just by standing there, your opponent gains meter in ALL situations but standing there. They gain meter in combo, taking hits, blocking hits, and attacking a blocking opponent from close and far range. Fulgore gains meter on block from only close range and in combo. Lots of people argue about playing against Fulgore all the time, but never complain about characters who have similar options with twice as much damage.
You say Fulgore sits in 2-3 shadow combos or shadow counters, my â â â ⊠That situation is so rare⊠Jago can earn an average of 12+ shadow moves in a match, if Fulgores meter is as easy to gain as youâre implying he should be able to beam you 10 times in a match. Fulgore is lucky if he even sees enough shadow in a match to use 5 shadow moves or 2 and a beam.
Iâll slightly quote your Fulgore has tools to out play your opponent. This is true, but that wonât help him win where the rest of the cast can just win with damage. Out playing an opponent means you have to always outplay them or you just lose. Fulgore will never do huge damage in a combo that can just swing a match. His only options are keeping momentum and going for control of the match not meter. Other characters can control the match while earning meter. Unless his meter is already Full, he canât zone you or he digs his own grave. So where the rest of the cast can always use any of their options whenever they want, Fulgore has to choose and depending on the outcome effects the entire match. Iâll put it this way, Iâve played enough Fulgore that he can be beaten and turned into a joke with Jago. Itâs not even a fair match if you just punish Fulgore on top of how badly he is punished in game already. Itâs almost impossible for Fulgore to beat Jago. He does twice the damage in footsie and counter hits, easily has double the shadow, and can heal and earn potentially 3 instincts in a match.
I never understood the Fulgore meter complaint. He only needs one pip to open up so many options for him. He can make things safe, use funky frame traps and block strings, use the best option selects in the game, and he gets annoying and safe mix ups that are self sustaining in terms of meter. To me the fact that his shadow DP only adds 1% and the fact that his shadow linkers are all easy as balls to break just shows that he isnât meant to use his meter on shadow moves.
On the damage front however they did nerf him way too hard. I donât think he should do Jago levels of damage but he definitely needs to do more than what he does now. Every time my opponent lives with a pixel I curse the nerf.
Of course he can still zone you! Each of his projectiles and his teleport are still available to him with or without meter. They never go away; he can use them whenever he wants. The only difference is that he has more options with meter, such as multiple projectiles, or special move cancels with the teleport (both of which are options that Jago doesnât have, I might add). Iâd pick Fulgore over Jago any day - heâs far more interesting and not vanilla.
I didnât say he couldnât zone you, I said he digs his own grave if he does. A Fulgore with little to no meter is no threat, you can harass him to no end without ever running the risk of a shadow counter. By the time he does have enough you could have easily chipped him for 50%+ or taken a round. A Fulgore on defense is a dead Fulgore. If youâre ever in that position early, you better hope they make a mistake and you get yourself out otherwise youâre not gonna win. The way he is designed, if youâre not offensive, you get nothing. You canât sit back with him, you canât earn meter with zoning and then go into a setup and use shadowâs to capitalize on damage, and you most definitely never want to be stuck blocking. All of those are situations where youâre giving them an advantage so much that itâs almost like throwing the match. However, if an opponent sits in all of those situations that Fulgore is punished for, they gain resources.
I think itâs pointing out the obvious design of Fulgore to state if you donât gain momentum early, itâs difficult to gain it as the match progresses.
Fulgore doesnât need a Shadow Reversal, he just needs 1 pip and a good read/bait to toss in a Cyberport as to maneuver for an Opener. The power of a Spark or delayed, slightly invul. Dash combined with a Cyberport or Cyberporting into a Special specific to the situation is as great⊠Maybe greater, than having access to a Shadow Counter or Shadow Move for defensive pressure breaking⊠Youâre not suppose to let yourself get pressured liked that and just 1 pip can let you try something.
If you mess up, yes it can be 13 seconds till your next attempt. All depends on your neutral game and combo-defense.
Are the Auto-Triples useless now? Honestly, they always were except unless during a Lockout to help battery. Too readable to be useful beyond beginner⊠Which is not much different than Rashâs Auto-Combo ability with mashing LightâŠ
Which is OK for me. Itâs a âbeginnerâsâ tool that can be used at the right moment for effect but thereâs a LOT more mid and high tier combo tech to use instead.
And itâs Spinal that gets nothing for doing nothing. Fulgore can get 1 pip at 13secs if he does nothing.
Fulgore Teleports are never safe against a metered opponent just so you know. Which is why zoning with Fulgore digs his own grave. But as you said needs a pip and a good read/bait, which means it isnât a guaranteed option. So once again he has to risk to do anything. 13 Seconds is too long to wait for an option to get out in a fighting game. Itâs easier said than done to just get out of pressure when someone keeps a continuous frame trap going against Fulgore, your only option usually vs frame traps is to shadow counter. Good luck⊠They will know when your meter is full and when your only chance to shadow counter is and throw bait it. Then youâre back to square one again with only 2 options, wake up dp or block. With either one being just a terrible idea since they will know those are your only 2 options.
All the situations you describe just sound like people playing better than you, quite frankly. Fulgore has plenty of tools to escape from pressure - especially compared to characters that donât have either a teleport or a DP, let alone both (hint: only one character in the game has both). Fulgoreâs meter mechanic is there, on purpose, to change the way he plays.
As far as the auto triples, I donât see any logic here which makes them less useful than heavy autodoubles, which are also readable. You can counter break on auto triples or you can use them after a lockout. I wouldnât describe that as useless.
Not having access to meter through methods where only Fulgore doesnât get meter means they are playing better than me? How does that make sense? If I have no meter on Fulgore I really only do have 2 options and at higher level play reading those 2 options is really easy, câmon⊠Just watch a bunch of the top places where players play, count the Fulgoreâs you see and why. Itâs either a counter pick of some sort or there just isnât a Fulgore played because of this reason. His High Risk/High Reward doesnât have high enough reward when a stray hit from anyone in the cast can lead to easier damage.
His teleport isnât a guaranteed escape from pressure, itâs actually the worst thing you can try to do. Shadow teleport is one of the worst shadowâs in the game, it has such a high chance to wiff even when timed right, itâs startup is stupidly high and his regular teleports might seem fast but you have only a couple of frames where you canât be hit but the moment you appear youâre vulnerable even when you canât make an action yet. Which only leaves him with a DP to get him out of high pressure situations. It doesnât matter if he is the only character to have both a DP and a Teleport, his damage sucks enough to where that is no threat. Fulgoreâs dp doesnât even hurt to get hit by⊠A stray dp is 10% from a heavy, and 11% from a counter hit and a counter hit shadow dp is 12%. Jago counter hit dp does 20% shadow and 15% raw.
I guess this is true, if you somehow forget that at the start of the match no one has any meter and that Fulgore has just as many neutral game tools as anyone else. Fulgore takes longer to generate a âfullâ shadow meter, but he also gets utility out of the fractions he has - which is unique and incredibly useful. As far as the idea that Fulgore must be low tier because people donât play him at âhigh level,â I am not going to go through a comprehensive discussion about each and every one of Fulgoreâs tools with you. But a couple of months ago, everyone knew that Cinder was low tier. Then EVO happened and Cinder started getting major representation at high level. Without any buffs or gameplay changes. The annals of fighting game history are littered with âunviableâ characters that were suddenly discovered to be very viable.
Never said he was low tier because he isnât played(why does everyone put words into my mouth, where did you even pull that information from). He is widely regarded as the best character in the game, if that is the case, why donât people play him? Simply because even if he has all of the tools in the world, his reward for having them is unreasonably low in comparison to just about anyone else. The amount of effort you need from Fulgore to get the same damage as almost anyone in the cast is too much. Everything he does has the lowest damage potential in the game, even stray pokes and counter hits, his are lower than Kan-Ra and Omen. Every match with Fulgore is a damage race. Which he loses. The only way Fulgore wins is outplaying your opponent. He doesnât just have some gimmick to rely on to win.
You guys are aware that every character in the game gets less meter for doing a Manual than doing an Auto Double, right? I keep seeing people say its not fair that Fulgore gets less meter for Manuals, but literally everyone gets less for doing Manuals compared to Doubles.
Fulgoreâs reactor works like this:
If you take no actions, the spin speed will stay steady, and after a timer, it will begin to slowly decrease.
If you take positive actions, the spin speed increases and the timer resets.
If you take a negative action, the spin speed decreases and the timer is set to 0, so you start losing momentum on the spin right away.
Most Fulgore players are not letting spin speed work for them. Donât stress about getting MORE SPIN if you are just going to take an action right after your combo that makes it slow down right away (Fireball, Beam, Teleport). Let your spin speed work FOR you and youâll spend time playing footsies or performing pressure during which your meter is just filling and filling.
Remember, Fulgore can do a ton of things with meter that no on else can. Yes, this comes with the disadvantage/advantage of it building up different, butâŠ
Fulgore can hold 2.5 stocks of meter, more than anyone in the game other than Omen.
Fulgore can spend 1/10th of his total to cancel a special into another special. No one else can do this.
Fulgore can sit on 4, 8, or 10 pips to enchance his movement. No one else can do this.
Fulgore can spend his entire bar on a super move. No one else can do this.
The quest to make Fulgore more ânormalâ would cost him these unique and awesome abilities, and would make him less KI. Robo-Jago, he is not.
Yeah that is true for any character in the cast but, the reality is that you have to always be in control of the match, meaning you have to outplay them the entire time or you fall behind because of damage differences. There are plenty of times where, you make a mistake breaking, you take 50%. If that happens against Fulgore you take 30-35% at the most. So if you make a mistake twice against Fulgore, and he makes a mistake twice against you, he lost a life bar and you didnât. Thatâs the only way I can really explain it. His biggest weakness is his lack of damage potential. Not saying he doesnât do damage, he does, but it just canât compete or compare with the rest of the cast which is why he isnât played at high level very much.
Just checking on technicalities, Omen can too?.. However Omenâs isnât guaranteed damage while Fulgoreâs can decisively end a match.
(And of course, Mayaâs Dagger Meter isnât tied to the Shadow.)
I suppose to add to me being corrected, an Auto-Triple used during a block string helps add to positive spin time.
⊠3, 3 useful tools out of a useless function, ha ha ha.
Helps maintain positive spin on block string.
Builds extra pips during lockouts.
Baits Counter Breakers.
Nothing should truly be a guaranteed unless youâve earned the resources and laid the chess pieces accordingly.
As a reminder, just 1 pip can make his teleport safe (he can after all cancel into a DP!)
