Lost Interest In Most KI Tournaments

General Discussion
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I’ve stopped watching KI tourney’s. Mostly out of lack on interest in KI. Haven’t really played after Shadow Lords. The mode isn’t for me and besides Kim Wu and Mira, this season really didn’t bring anything for me. That’s overlooking the face issues Kim has and how tough Mira’s playstyle is. The flipouts, the new 50/50’s it introduced really soured the game for me.

Saw todays stream and was reminded KI Cup will happen some time soon. Maybe Ill watch it but no one tweets about KI tourney’s anymore so I don’t watch them or have knowledge of when they drop.

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This is fighting games, though. It happens with Street Fighter just as much; I will watch (and have watched) lots of high-level SFV tourneys, but watching mid-level players is a boring slogfest that I can’t turn away from fast enough. All you see is how poorly they are playing, even if they are better than me. It’s not fun to watch. SF fans are blessed because tons of the world’s best talent are playing their game, and there are 80 events a year where all the Japanese travel, so you can just flip on a CapcomFighters stream and see the world’s best players on any given day. But don’t make the mistake of thinking that “only the tournaments where these players come out to is worth watching” doesn’t apply to SF as well.

You know how you can make a game a little bit more interesting at the mid level? Create a bunch of crazy hard optimization problems and a ton of character diversity so that no two matches look alike, and wacky things will happen even if the players are bad. I’d say KI actually does this just about as well as any other fighting game. SFV, on the other hand, is kind of bad at this I think. All combos look the same (even mid-level players will never drop their character’s combos), so the slop in the game comes from poorly optimized punishes and letting his opponent get away with stuff, like lack of anti-air and checks on pressure. Basically the more frustrating things that can happen when watching poor players play. And while this is in every game (KI included), it is the only thing you see in mid-level SFV play because the rest of the game is so constricted and straightforward. You are pretty unlikely to see a combo drop leading to a scramble, or a cool mixup or reset.

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I understand that. It’s just turned me away from watching and I want to help contribute to viewer count. I’m glad I had a blast watching Kombo Klash though. I can’t wait for 3.6 and I’ll continue supporting even though I’m frustrated.

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I really can’t understand all the “random” complains.

Without taking in consideration Omen’s Rashakuken(who nobody is mentioning as an issue, because is not, and I’m going to ignore), NOTHING in this game is random
Videogames are very specific and limited spaces. Everything works the same way, every time. You can’t change the rules each character have to follow, even if the rules they follow are different from the others.

Every character has a determined walkspeed, dashspeed, frame data, jump arc… They can’t change that. Sadira or Gargos could double jump, but that is also determined by the game. You can’t, by any way, perform a double jump with Sadira which makes her drop directly to the ground, instead of making her hop upwards.

Everything is fixed. Gargos minions doesn’t attack on random, they attack after a fixed amount of time.

CB’s works if you perform them one frame earlier or the same frame than the breaker attempt.

Feck, even Omen’s rashakuken are not random. They follow fixed patterns, with random chances of getting one of them, but even then, the projectiles have a fixed route.

Due all this, this fixed rules, EVERYTHING can be used in your favor or against you in all fairness.

I don’t know what people means by “random strategies”. What does this means? Being unpredictable? Of course being unpredictable is GOOD. You could just take the “safe” route, but sometimes, you have to take risks. The adversion that some people seem to have against any way of taking risks really puzzles me. Taking risks it’s part of KI DNA. High risk high reward is common in this game. Trying to avoid risk is just not playing optimal gameplay.

Also, having a correct read means nothing if you don’t have it ON TIME. I could see Shago performing a fullscreen slide, I SEE HIM BEFORE HITTING ME, I try to block low, but if he hits me it means that I WASN’T FAST ENOUGH. I got the read, but I wasn’t faster enough: I don’t deserve a reward. Rewards comes from both read AND timing, not only reads itselfs.

It’s funny, along all my life, most pro players were the “experts” of their games. They knew how to optimize their gameplay. They understood their games. KI seems to have more people who understands the game among his “no pro” players than its “pro players”. Few exceptions here, but there are some

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I think people have to keep in mind the pyramid here too. For every @infilament who watches a high level match and fully understands it, there’s a dozen guys like me who have a middling understanding - enough to recognize big mistakes and great reads and see the players general strategies. For everyone like me, there’s a dozen guys who either don’t get mechanics of KI very well at all or think the game is SF, and for each of them there’s twelve guys who just want to see successfulcounter breakers or a clutch DP with bright flashing lights and complain in the Twitch chat that Kim Wu is ugly.

If you are really losing interest in any fighting game because the top players are playing suboptimally, you have to recognize how small a part of a small part of a small audience you are. I’m not trying to diminish anyone or their opinions here, but the idea that the game is dying because people make too 8 with gaps in their game knowledge and execution is far fetched.

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I would like to remark the “mental damage” here, something that most people are ignoring.

KI has tools which deals HUGE mental damage. Performing a CB could be the greatest mental damaging tool ever. I have won and lost games due to mental damage leading to poor choices

This thread is a good example about dealing huge mental damage against your opponent

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I feel you, I’m just sayin’ let’s try not to be doomsayers because the same 5 dudes aren’t attending EVERY SINGLE TOURNEY. It’s actually kinda the opposite, and the more new blood hittin’ up the 8BB’s and offlines the better. They may not be Bass-level, but let’s give’em the benefit of the doubt. They’ll get there. The fact that they’re here at all is a sign is a growth, and that’s good. And from what we saw last night, even seasoned “pros” can make really frickin’ amateurish mistakes. We’re human. It’s all good. Fight on.

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^This. Top competitors and athletes didn’t get that way over night. It’s astoundingly rare that someone makes it to the Superbowl in their first season. Why would we expect the same to be done with every KI player?

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BTW, @OvisCantus, I just read through your full post and I gotta say this:

If it weren’t for Bastfree showing me how important studying frame data is, I would never have stuck and performed will with Kim Wu. I also love your point of figuring out other character’s weaknesses.

You are learning quickly, well done :slight_smile:

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First place finishes in tournaments, and i would be happy to play you. :slight_smile:

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Actually it’s this crappy attitude that’s pushing me, and likely others with valuable perspectives, away from wanting to contribute.

I finally found a minute to catch up on the thread and this is the first thing I see. Posts like this is why no top player in their right mind visits this forum. I don’t know why I still make that mistake.

Closing window.

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Contribute anyway Paul. I would love to hear your explanation. Did you ever post that post you were going to do after your flight? I may have missed it if you did.

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Man please contribute anyways. A few people and some of the devs are listening and value all input. Sadly most of the time the minority are the most vocal on the forums. Plus someone’s got to break the trend of pros not talking. Mind as well be you mate.

If I had the skill or know how it would be me. But I can’t lead by example. So please tell us things from your point of view.

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*shrug * No point begging for someone’s opinion. Instead of responding to the multiple constructive posts asking him to elaborate on his perspective, he picked an odd comment not even directed at him to use as validation for why he should “quit” the thread.

If Paul wants to contribute he will. If he doesn’t he won’t. Simple as that, and not really worth advertising for one way or the other.

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Eh it’s not begging. I’m just trying to foster an environment for everyone to express their opinions. Paul and others seem to be hesitant or maybe even afraid to express their opinions I just want to show them it’s ok to state their opinions.

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It’s everywhere dude. Just gotta accept/ignore it am I right?

I may not be a top player. But I visit here everyday TBH. Sometimes it’s for the better some times its for the worse. You just gotta ignore what you don’t like. And focus on the good things.

Heck they’re many people I don’t like whether it be on the web or IRL. So what do I do? I just don’t talk to them.

A few bad apples don’t have to spoil the bunch.

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And it’s also not the first time this “Shago tactic” (=runaway tactic) has been applied.

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The fact someone cant leave a conversation without being ridiculed should show you how cancerous this community is.

It is not a “polite community discussion” when someone needs to feel victorious by saying “He ran away from the thread”, or the most recent “he rage quit”.

This isn’t a fight. Its a thread. We leave our opinions, and then we stop posting when we feel we have had enough. There is no “winning” or “loosing” or “tactics”, its just a conversation.

but when some people would rather “win” instead of actually discussing, it just makes the rest of us loose hope. There is just no point in dealing with them, so we dont.

People like @MDMMORNING feel acomplished for pushing others out of a thread, while people like me and @llPaulBll just continue our day and hope that the devs consider our opinions as well.

This game doesnt have a huge bearing on my life, so i get to just laugh and walk away and wait for the next patch. I honestly feel bad for Paul because he is fighting to make lesser voices heard, and he continually keeps trying to help despite knowing the backlash he will get from the community.

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@EbullientSeaCow, I appreciate the thought, but @llPaulBll “participates” in the forum by breezing in, dropping a post with zero detail saying “S3 sux” then profoundly refuses to have a conversation about it. Instead engaging only with the biggest asshat he can find in the thread. Wait a month. Repeat. He’s not looking for a “safe space” because he’s too frightened of the forum to share his opinion. He’s looking for the kind of echo chamber/hero worship he gets in his Twitch chat (which is toxic as ****).

@llPaulBll I can’t judge your opinion any other way than in the merits of what you write. And on that basis it seems you have nothing useful to say here.

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Things like this make me think i should also leave the site.

Paul has made his own threads with plenty of discussion, then gotten torn apart. Then, some time later, another pro will say the same thing, and he will join the conversation and basically ask “are you guys ready to talk about this now that you have 2 pro opinions?” And the only thing that changes is that they BOTH get torn apart, and they both get tired and give up.

Paul has put in on multiple patch note discussion, and LCD discussion threads, and then he gets chased away by people who dont even try to understand his points.

So answer this… WHY would he ever try to have a full discussion with you guys again? Why should he think it will be any different?