…and yet, from my own perspective, you’re being just as passive-aggressive as he is with your own “ad-hominem” comments, which makes you a bit of a hypocrite. The best thing to do when someone supposedly verbally “attacks” you, is to ignore it. By responding to it, you do nothing positive to add to the discussion and merely make it worse.
I’ve had this argument before, and even been on your side of it at 1 time or another - you’re not reacting to the light AD, you’re reacting to your opponent’s habits of doing said light AD. In other words, it’s still impossible to react to and break UNLESS you know it’s coming beforehand.
This so much, there are entire free games that keep on growing just on cosmetic sales…its so dumb that we have no ways to toss more money towards the game.
I’d buy lots of cosmetics if priced at a fair price like 2-3$
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So my understanding of the combo is that Manuals are designed to lock people out and auto-doubles are designed to bait people into counter breakers (this is obviously somewhat of an over-simplification).
Now my question to @llPaulBll and @Infilament is do agree that they are designed as such?
Paul it seems like you’re wanting manuals to be bait-able which would make sense to use them in conjunction with counter-breakers.
“…a metaphorical description of a situation in which information, ideas, or beliefs are amplified or reinforced by transmission and repetition inside an ‘enclosed’ system, where different or competing views are censored, disallowed, or otherwise underrepresented.”
I think that’s a bit of a harsh indictment sir.
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Manuals are baitable though.
I heard this before and I completely disagree. You can react to lights if you pay attention. Player reactions and conditioning to the combo system can do that. I have reacted to them regardless of how fast they come due to being familiar with animation. So I agree with paul.
This may be splitting hairs - but you can’t out of the blue “react” to a light auto-double. If you have your fingers on the button and you are waiting to see it you might be able to recognize it and then break - or to withhold your break when you don’t see it. But you aren’t keeping your hand in a neutral position, seeing the light, moving to the buttons and pressing them in time to truly react to it.
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hmm why bait with a manuel when you can bait with a AD?
I appreciate what DH and IG has done with a shoestring budget but I’m done with this game. Hoping for a KI4 with a real AAA budget.
Choosing to no longer support the game is exactly what won’t make that happen.
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Isn’t that the truth. The idea that the choice is between this game and a better KI that they will make later is such a joke. Not sure where people get that logic from…
And, frankly, why does everyone need to announce their retirement in the message boards to signify their protest? I have a huge library of games that I’m not currently playing and I haven’t once posted on a message board. “I’m done with this game. Look forward to when the make a GOOD version.”
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[quote=“BigBadAndy, post:334, topic:11921”] The idea that the choice is between this game and a better KI that they will make later is such a joke. Not sure where people get that logic from…
[/quote]
It’s a long shot…from the marketing gurus at Capcom?
“Buy the old darkstalkers that nobody wants or already owns now, and if it sells well then we’ll make a new version. If nobody buys the old unwanted version then it totally proves our point that nobody wanted a new next gen darkstalkers in the first place.”
Psychologically speaking, an individual announcing their retirement of a specific game (such as KI) is in reality a hopeful plea to be heard. If you state that you are leaving because of a specific reason (usually negative) they hope the devs will take them more seriously.
Its the very same reason people call their cell phone providers and tell them they are going to leave their company if “such and such demands” aren’t met.
90% of the time, they have no intention of leaving. They just want to be heard.
Lol. I’m dragging this off topic but it’s probably as good an example as any. Even in that case you actually need to buy the old game to incentivize them making a new one (I bought Darkstalkers on both PS3 and 360, btw). Capcom is incapable of making a game that will break even unless it sells 2-4 million units at full retail price. So I don’t think you’re going to find a financial analyst in the world who is going to thumbs up a new Darkstslkers, no matter how passionately the core group of fans and greater FGC might want one. We just aren’t a big enough audience. To be clear, I think a new Darkstslkers would easily be as popular as Guilty Gear and maybe even do as well as KI. But Arc has figured out a way to churn out GG games and stay in business selling 200k copies of each iteration. According to VG chartz (which I know sucks but is the best I can find) Xrd sign sold 320k copies on PS3 and 4 and Revelator is at like 40k. Interestingly, that game is regarded as a beautiful graphical achievement even though it runs on PS3 and is therefore clearly not “next gen,” despite that being used as an argument against the current KI (“it needs graphical upgrades to be popular…”). As an aside, maybe Capcom should commission Arc to make a new Darkstalkers using the GG Xrd engine?
Anyway, my point is making games is really, really hard. And making MONEY by making games is much much harder (that’s why MS is selling us $70 pink and chartreuse controllers with our names etched in them instead of introducing loads of new IPs). So a reality based look at the current KI in the context of MS and their history of IP management (sorry guys, I love you but you have to admit it’s not a great track record), the trends in the industry overall (SFV sales, Evolve going F2P, Nintendo releasing F2P Pokemon games on iPhone…) and you would have to be completely out of your mind to think that the next logical step under any circumstances would be to drop a giant money bomb on making a “AAA” KI. And doubly so to think that the way to make that happen is to slag the current game and let everyone know you aren’t playing it anymore.
And since I’m well on my way to being chastised, banned or otherwise rebuked for this long, off topic post I will throw in this: KI 2013 has AAA combat design. You cannot make a case that MS could just “buy” better combat mechanics by spending more money on development. Since S1 with DH and Filthierich and then with the move to IG they have put the effort into making sure that top tier, experienced FGC folks have been involved in designing, building and testing the fighting mechanics for the game. That doesn’t mean you have to agree with all of the choices that are made, but it is completely unjustified to suggest that KI doesn’t have AAA support when it comes to the core gameplay.
[looks up at the thread title] So… uh… @CrazyLCD, how do you feel about the idea of ending this game and seeing a “AAA” sequel.
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Since its already derailed:
Every double in the Game is breakable on reaction even light autos
If you decide to break a specific stregth at the beginning if a combo and only break that strength you can always 100% react to every double - you wait for it to happen but you still react
You can even react to most heavy manuals if you wait for it and im sure some medium manuals (depending on their startup and hitstun) are possible too
And i want to throw in some thoughts about what a counter breaker is - it is no no parry it is a counter breaker
It is a counter to one specific action (the breaker) that can happen at any given time (even if it results in a lockout the action still happened) during a combo after a opener or third hit happenend.
It is a hard read and on another level as a parry
A parry requires a action before that you can see so, you are not walking in the dark when this action can happen
If you take a look at EVO Moment 37 Daigo reacted to the super flash and the rest is history.
Even parry a jump attack requires the jump action to happen - so while the parry itself is still a guess/read the reaction to the jump is not. Of course some parry can be pure guesses but they dont have to be due to the visible action before
A counter breaker is simply a pure guess/read and there is not a single visual indication if the breaker action is happening - and putting a frame perfect timing on something like that is imo just bad design
If i counter break 1 frame too late - i lose the damage and getting a punish (15-20% at minimum) for being one frame too late on a action that is a pure guess/read to a action that has no indication that its happening for just making the right read one frame too late
If you think that fine than you are free to do so but it should be clear that many players will not agree with you in this particular case
I dont exactly know how counter breakers worked in s2 but they def. been more forgiving than frame perfect timing - which was fine imo
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I don’t see how counter breakers are “frame perfect” when it’s active for a while after it’s activated, unlike most parries. Just buffer the counter early on in the move and unless it’s something like Rash’s boot with a ton of hitstop you’ll catch an opponent no matter when they try to break.
But you’re supposed to counter-break BEFORE the combo-breaker, not after - this has already been established (and having it any other way, is IMO, counter-intuitive). Furthermore, having some sort of visual/audible indication that the opponent is going to combo-break BEFORE they actually do it defeats the purpose and balance of the mechanic. You’re supposed to use counter-breakers based upon how well you can read your opponent and their habits in regards to how often they use combo-breakers - that’s it! There are no other tells, and there shouldn’t be.
- Attacker attacks, starts combo.
- Defender can combo-break with 1/3 chance of success on a guess, with a higher success rate on a good read on reaction.
2a. Defender’s combo-break succeeds; combo is broken; both players returned to neutral.
2b. Defender’s combo-break fails; attacker continues attack for further 3 seconds unhindered.
2c/4a. Attacker counter-breaks and forces defender to lock out; see 2b. - Defender chooses not to combo-break; attacker continues combo string.
4b. Attacker drops combo string and forces defender to lock out; begins reset.
4c. Attacker performs an instinct cancel and forces defender to lock out; begins reset.
Yep, this game’s definitely on the side of the offense. 
With that said, you cannot humanly react fast enough to light ADs and most manuals mid-combo. The devs have stated this on numerous occasions. You only THINK you can based on good reads against your opponent’s previous habits, to the point of it being almost instinctual and automatic, but you’re still very much anticipating it rather than reacting to it - and there IS a difference.
If you don’t believe me, I propose a test: go into combo-breaker mode, and turn off all labels indicating attack type, and set attacks to be completely random (with everything - ADs, manuals, etc.) on the ultra difficulty level. I can virtually guarantee you that while you will be able to break medium and heavy ADs rather successfully with even a modicum of skill and understanding (since they’re reactable), you won’t be able to do so consistently against the light ADs and most manuals. Do this for 5 minutes, record it, then view and and share the results. Do this multiple times for more consistent results.
If you dont trust me than maybe someone different… if you wait for light doubles you can always react to them period. Heavy Manuals are possible too. If i wait for somethin my average reaction time is about 216-230 ms and im already 35…
And regarding to your other point - i never said it should change - just that you can not draw analogy between a parry and a counter breaker - they are on a different level
Both are poses that your character takes where you have to anticipate an opponent’s attack. It your opponent attacks you in the active frames then you’re rewarded and if your opponent doesn’t take the bait you get punished.
They’re pretty much the same thing when you think about it.