If the only thing that matters is the read, why don’t we quit playing fighting games and just play RPS?
Except that it isn’t an auto double and characteristically quite different.
But that’s fine. We don’t agree. I wasn’t trying to convince you. Just trying to shed some light on why a lot of the community is still confused and thinks the old way is better.
This is the line that confuses (and continues to confuse) me. I don’t understand what’s “characteristically quite different” about it.
If you could clearly specify what the difference is, and why one 15-20 frame window is too tight and the other 15-20 frame window isn’t too tight, it would clear up a lot of the confusion for me.
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great question, i am eagerly waiting for his response
Can someone enlighten me as to exactly what the difference between Pre-S3 CBs were and the current Counter Breakers are? From my understanding you have ALWAYS needed to trigger the Counter before the opponent’s break attempt, and the change made it EASIER for the offensive player to do so by buffering their Counter Breaker ahead of time…?
Like I said, I struggled to use Counter Breakers successfully before this Season, but I’m now finding it easier to do mid combo.
Why yes, I believe I can help there.
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Those figures were arbitrary. Frame data of auto doubles vs manuals is very different, as is execution timing. You can’t tell me a light manual is “on the screen” as long as a heavy auto double.
Because of this breaking auto-doubles is (usually) a reaction. Breaking manuals is (usually) a complete guess or read. Thus, auto doubles can often be used as bait because you can react to them. You can’t reliably do that with manuals. You’re banking on the read of a guess break, not a reaction.
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When you think about it. In S3, you get punished for making the read.
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breaking light auodoubles are guesses, u cant break them on reaction. infil talked abt light auotdoubles . so his argument makes perfect sense imo
No, you don’t. You get punished for making a read and executing on it incorrectly.
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I react to them all the time, as do most competitive players.
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stop it !! it isnt humanly possible !! only some characters like aganos and tj have reactable light autodoubles for everyone else it isnt reactable. the developers have said this numerous times , even back to dh days.
Correct, those figures were arbitrary, which is why I didn’t go look up the active frames of Wulf st.MP (and, I presume, you didn’t go look up frames of light auto-doubles).
But yes, manuals are more of a guess, while doubles can be more of a reaction. While I don’t think that should impact how counter breakers function, let’s shift the example away from the reaction part:
For many players, they are particularly struggling with counter breakers on manual juggles, including things that are wholly reactable, like say… TJ’s Tremor. This is, I think you would agree, a totally reactable part of a combo, and “stays on the screen” for about as long as a heavy auto-double, give or take a small bit.
Is there a difference in your mind between breaking TJ’s heavy Tremor recapture, vs breaking Jago’s heavy auto-double? In S2, you were given upwards of 10 frames of leeway on the Tremor recapture, but you had to be strictly first on Jago’s auto-double. Is this discrepancy good or bad? Should we change it to be wholly before the break (ie, S3), or change ALL counter breaks to be allowed 10 frames after the break attempt (my question a few posts ago which you thought was overloading the point)?
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Light auto-doubles are around 20-22 total frames (which is about the same number of frames as, say, Jago’s overhead). They’re reactable if you’re looking for them, but it’s very difficult to react to lights AND mediums AND heavies AND resets all at the same time, which is why people lock out and get hit.
But if you took me into training mode and asked me to strictly react to ONLY light auto-doubles, it can be done.
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I am still waiting for that answer. Or am I just never going to get it?
My issue is mainly with manuals that don’t have a large break window which leads breaking them to be total guesses most of the time. We need some leniency there, in my opinion. TJ’s recap, even in S3, has a large break window, which means a large opportunity to bait, which means you’re breaking it on reaction.
Your previous post was overloading the point because you dragged shadows, doubles, and everything else into the equation. There’s no reason we can’t assess and make changes for each scenario.
Because most players aren’t thinking about specific frame timing when they try to counter break. They’re just thinking about the action “break.” They’re not thinking about “break at frame 10.”
I thought that was clear.
If they’re total guesses most of the time, that means that they will either go through or result in lockouts more often than doubles. Following this logic, it makes the most sense for it to be difficult to counterbreak on manuals because they’re far more likely to be successful.
do u get those numbers from the frame data in game??? because in-game frame data says lights are 13-14 frames while mediums are 20-22 while heavies are around 30. i still find it hard to believe anyone can read recognize and then break a light autodouble , i cant and when i run into people that break lights if i switch to heavies they get locked out all the time.
I disagree.