Killer Instinct Frame Data complete!


#1

Frame data link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EBONXi2TCD1gTS2GbcB4z6ZYEoq3NNYp99kSxstKACE

Hi all, myself as well as Atsumachi and Ziarist have been working for many months to get you completely hand-verified frame data for every move in KI, and we’ve finally finished the project. Those two guys in particular deserve most of the credit for this project, since they did the majority of the work!

Bookmark that google doc in case you want easy reference to verified data about any move in the game, as well as a ton of stuff that the in-game frame data does not mention (like exact invincibility frames, windows for which manuals are possible, etc). And of course, startup/active/recovery and on hit/on block numbers have been corrected when the in-game data is wrong.

We’re going to use this thread to discuss some of the funky and crazy things we’ve learned about the game while doing the frame data, since all of us learned a ton about the game that we wouldn’t have learned otherwise, and we wanted to share that info with the community in a more condensed format.


#2

Man, there was a lot of fun stuff discovered about the game and the characters. A lot of it comes from not really thinking too hard before about how the game works or being unfamiliar with a character so it was really fun getting to find out about a lot of this stuff!

One of my most favorite characters to work on was TJ Combo and seeing how drastic of a change he went through from in and out of Instinct. For example, I didn’t know that his jabs actually become 4f startup, making them the fastest normal in the game! Other fun stuff was finding out just how plus he is on everything (i.e his sweep becomes +4 on block while in Instinct!) I just hope with the data finally out there, the idea of TJ wanting to use his Instinct for anything other than Last Breath becomes highly prolific!

Something else I found out about TJ that led me to looking into other characters is Kara Cancelling his Back Step special into a throw which doesn’t actually give him any extra distance on his throw but allows some oddly fun stuff to do with him. For example, you can hit someone with a Stagger and then do the Kara Cancel and make it look like you special cancelled into throw! Here’s an example of it: https://twitter.com/Atsumachi/status/894453823053234176

This then led to me trying to think of what other characters this could apply to and so I went looking. I tried it out on Riptor and although she couldn’t get it to combo off of staggers like TJ, she did get the benefit of increasing the range of her regular throw! Here’s an example: https://twitter.com/Atsumachi/status/894458423466532864

Beyond that, I think one of the most fun characters to work on was Arbiter. Boy howdy, talk about a very interesting character with a lot of quirks that you may never know about. For instance, did you guys know that he can Negative Edge his Down Forward HP into itself? Just hold the input, wait for it to finish, and then let go of the button and a second one will come out on it’s own! This is the only button I could find in the game that had this unique property. Another instance I found of Arbiter being able to do something no one else could was with his Cr.LP. I haven’t tested it with his St.LP but I assume it’ll probably be the same, but did you know you can actually whiff cancel his LP into a shadow move? I actually didn’t find this one out on my own, a friend of mine who got a person at his locals interested in KI actually found this out. This allows for some really neat stuff like using his jabs to bait a Counter Breaker, and since hitting one of those is considered a whiff, Arbiter can cancel his Jab into a Shadow Energy Shield, thus beating or trading with Counter Breakers on Reaction! Really cool stuff!

One other thing I want to shout out is @ninjafrombox for discovering the First Launcher bug. He had compiled all of Eagle’s data and I decided to double check it and the info I got from a throw was different than his so I just assume he made a mistake. He then sent me a PM saying that the data I had was wrong in that only during the first time Eagle performed a throw would the advantage be different, then afterwards it would go back up to what it normally should be. From there we started looking and speculating what could have caused it and what we found at first was that this would happen if you performed a throw that also led to a Hard Knockdown so we called it the First Throw Bug. Then after that as we went through all the pages finalizing everything, we were going through changing the data for projectiles and making sure everything was right and when it came time to ARIA, I checked her Shadow Dissonance and when I recorded it, I noticed the advantage on hit was way different then the number I had originally recorded and so from there we discovered that it wasn’t only just throws that caused it, but anything that allowed for a juggle AND provided a Hard Knockdown. From there we were able to discover how the bug could be dispelled and fount that all you had to do to fix it was have the opponent either get hit or block a normal or special and it would disappear. This is how it went on for so long without being discovered, but it’s also a testament to how inconsequential this bug truly is.

One last character I wanted to mention was Aganos since he’s my main. I never knew until doing all of this that when Aganos can start performing manuals, he uses the 2 chunk variation of his moves for the manual timing. This actually explains a lot as the @developers always had in mind that Aganos 2c was the default state of the character and that’s why the in game data was for his 2c variation for the longest time!

There’s a good deal more that could be discussed but these were the things I definitely wanted to showcase that surprised me! I’m sure the others have fun things to talk about as well!


#3

I’m at work right now so I’ll make my first entry short.

Shin Hisako just has so many active frames on her moves. She is a meaty machine. Standing at the very tip of the range for far standing MK makes her +7 on block!

Her rekkas also have less active frames when cancelled. This is applicable to the other rekkas in the game but I didn’t realize how drastic it was.


#4

Fulgore can pip cancel Blade Dash, Fireball, and Eye Laser at any time during recovery, all the way up to the last active frame… that is, every move except L fireball, which has a pretty big dead zone at the end where you can’t pip cancel. Coincidentally, L fireball is the only fireball that allows a manual on hit, so maybe this move is just programmed differently?

Also, whenever Fulgore pip cancels M or H laser, the remaining active frames for the laser still stay on the screen! It looks really funky in training mode, especially H laser where a giant horizontal green hitbox is just floating in space while Fulgore has already started to do a different move.

I was frequently surprised by the various shadow move timings. I thought Jago’s shadow wind kick was always 3+5 (ie, 8f startup and punishes -8) but it’s actually 3+4, so it can punish important -7 moves like Cinder fully charged inferno. Cinder’s shadow fireflash is 1+5 so it can punish -6 moves (like, for example, Jago shadow fireball).

I also computed the gaps between Hisako’s rekkas and I was surprised to learn that if you do lots of L rekkas, you really only have enough frames to fit a jab in. I mostly thought you could swing with mediums for anything that wasn’t H rekka but no, you’re gonna get trapped a lot if you try to swing with bigger buttons or specials.

Shin Hisako’s shadow rekka is +10 on block and can be block confirmed pretty late from overhead (which means I finally found a use for that overhead!). This means you can try to “guess” with overhead against an opponent with no meter in neutral, since overhead low crushes a bit after startup, and on block you can turn yourself +10 on reaction, which gives you plenty of time to attempt a dash mixup or just take your plus frames with whatever attack you want.

There’s a lot of stuff like this in the game, if I can remember more I’ll make another post.


#5

Just so people can visually see what the Arbiter SC thing looks like heres a clip. Since his LP is whiff cancelable for his LP LK target combo that he can do on whiff, it lets him do this, since getting SC’d treats the button as if it whiffed…Either it’s just straight up canceling into Overshield or I guess its kara-canceling the LK of the target combo into Overshield. Either way, this happens, and it’s kind of amusing. If they have a grenade on them and the stars align (or you find a way to plan for it) then the grenade can recap them before they hit the ground and let you confirm… lol


#6

What a great and unexpected thread this is. Thanks for all your hard work!

Edit: out of curiosity, how much of the frame data reported by the game is wrong? Just a ballpark.


#7

I expected no less from some of the greatest minds in our community. Infil you are one of the most helpful souls in any game community I’ve ever been in and it is a delightful treat to have you here!


#8

I don’t believe we checked the in-game data once, even out of curiosity. For the characters with more changes it’s probably in the 10% range, but the newer the character and the fewer changes probably bring it down to about 1-2%. This is all per character.


#9

While I appreciate the kind words, just want to be clear that Atsu and Ziarist took up the mantle on this project after I burned out on it, and kept working away for a few months while I did nothing! I came back in the end and helped them tidy up what was left, but really they deserve most of the credit for this project.

I would guess between 5-10% was wrong. A lot of the wrong stuff was, like… weird jumping or shadow moves. Most of the normals ended up being right.


#10

I just want to clarify further, that Atsu is the real hero. I may have started it and did average work for Season 1 characters, but he really knocked it out of the park doing Aganos, Gargos, and TJ (plus Instinct). Seriously, thanks so much @RFGCAtsumachi.


#11

Thank you kindly for the words gentlemen, it was a lot of fun getting to work with you all on this project! It might have taken a good while but it was all worth it in the end!


#12

This is fantastic. I wish the Google docs for mobile was a little bit better optimized but I don’t think there was anything you guys could do about that.

Great work guys! Thank you for all of the hard work everyone put into this.


#13

This is some mind blowing work!

I found some mistakes or inconsistencies and I also have some interesting information to add:

Kan-Ra

-Clutch ender is not juggleable and it’s not a launcher
-Shadow swarm can not be destroyed by physical hits
-Cr. HK and j. HK also destroy projectiles as well as all of his stinger/antlion moves (not just only St. HK)
-Cr. HK causes a hard knock down vs airborne opponents (that one is pretty important to know)
-j. MK does also cross up
-cr.MK dodges most projectiles
-both cr. HP and DB HP launch and are juggleable
-shadow spike is not active for 115 frames. You can definitely get hit out of the move in-between the trap creation and the first stinger strike. It also always causes push back in the same direction. If you switch positions with your opponent it will push him/her into you enabling a true infinite block string. All you have to do is loop cr. Mk xx l. Swarm (stinger strike). The only way for your opponent to escape this is to get hit by cr. MK or shadow counter.
-curse turns instinct TJ Combo back to normal. It has the exact opposite effect
-curse adds 1/3 to all start up, active and recovery frames (except shadow moves and Hisako’s teleport)

You guys are amazing


#14

Brandon Chun is working on implementing the 100% data into the Killer Competitor app. So we can have a mobile friendly version.


#15

Brandon runs that app? For some reason, i thought you guys had a hand in it. Small world.


#16

He had the idea, and skill set to make the app. We got the data and he asked to use it. So, we kind of just acted as an API. Just a very slow one.


#17

Sabrewulf’s cr. LP is 0 then??. That would explain the challenges. I thought it was lag though.
I was convinced it was like the frame data info the game showed (however I knew there were mistakes) :frowning:

See that all you Wulf haters? Not every Wulf button is PLUS! :rofl:


#18

@RFGCAtsumachi, @Ziarist and @Infilament

Since they announced a couple of frame data changes for the next patch are you planning to add these to the frame data document?

I’m not nagging - mostly I wanted to bump the thread and recognize you all again for the effort you put into this.


#19

For sure, as soon as I’m able to test the changes when the patch drops I’ll add it to the document along with some other things I missed like some normals having HKD against airborne, Mira air dash, and so on.


#20

Ok I updated the document and added things I missed before. It should now be accurate as of (August 16, 2018)