I liked KI Classic. A lot. I still play it for hours a day. The only real negative impact KI 2013 had on me, was that all of the moves and combos were now different buttons. I can adapt, no big worries there. Although, what I was really upset about is what was lost in that transition. Decades of combos and tweaking frames seemed just, in the past. If you play street fighter 2, or street fighter 5, you can do a hadouken. Same buttons, no stress. They just add more every game. Remember the fighting styles in MK deadly alliance and deception? How they could switch between stances. Imagine Orchid being able to switch back to her KI Classic stance in game and have THOSE combos and attacks, and she can switch back to a 2013 stance and attack with those combos and attacks. Now picture swapping between them for “mutant” combos made from both. Different Ultras for different stances, etc. Just a suggestion. Thanks for your time.
Welcome to the forums! Always a pleasure meeting a fellow fan of KI, especially one who appreciates the classics. I like the idea of that personally.
While I appreciate the suggestion, I’d rather not personally. That would mean every character would be required to have two entire movesets with completely unique animations. Meaning we’ed be able to have less characters overall, which would not be fun. I’d be cool with having more of their classic moves and combos come back though! A sequel would be the perfect place to do that because they’ed be starting from square one.
That’s kind of debatable. Personally speaking, I think it’s the quality of the characters and the game itself rather than the number that matters. I’d rather have a low number of fighters that are of good solid quality than, say, fifty or sixty that are crap.
I guess I should have added the qualifier “for me”
I tend to feel that KI 2013 probably has about 5-7 more characters than it really should. A 12-16 person roster would make it much easier to learn the breaker system.
As far as the combo chains, I appreciate the idea. But i don’t see the tight combo timings and the nearly random system of chains and linkers from the original coming back to any future games. It was a different era and the combo system in the 2013 game feels like a much better system. I don’t see them going back to that.
Cool. Thanks for the feedback. I agree with character count completely, 12-16 is plenty for me. I appreciate the tight combo timings and set chains a lot more in the original though. As for it taking up more space, the only thing you’d have to do is remake the combo animations from the original, hence giving them an updated frame rate to match 2013’s frame style. People like the original, and people liked 2013, the tldr of my idea is the amalgamation of those 2 games, allowing the original’s and the 2013’s combos to be used in unison. Or if you prefer, just fight old school style, or just 2013 style. If I could fight against 2013’s characters with the original’s characters, I’d be a pig in the mud as a fan, and I don’t think anyone would be mad at it. Throw in a couple new combos maybe for good measure… that would be the ultimate KI experience for me. There shouldn’t be lost generations of KI… they should evolve but not be replaced. Does that make any sense?
I can’t agree with that. More characters means more playing. KI 13’s method of adding characters is actually perfect since the time between each characters release gives people time to learn them.
It’s fine for you not to agree. But I think the reason we don’t agree is that we play the game very differently. You primarily play single player against the CPU. So every new character is a chance for you to get new experiences in the way you play. 20 is good, 30 is better and 100 would be a dream come true. Because why not?
I play almost exclusively in online, and mostly against random players in ranked. I like to experiment a little with the characters but 90% of the time I’m playing my “main” against whatever the opponent brings.
When a character drops they are popular for a hot minute but most quickly disappear from ranked. So each additional character over and above 12 is just a ton of matchup information to try to learn for a character you will see on average 1/20 matches at best. KI is VERY deeply dependent on matchup knowledge because all the characters are dirty as heck and you need to know. So memorizing and internalizing matchup knowledge into reactions for 20+ characters, all with unique autodoubles and linker animations becomes too much like work. This is very different from a game like MK, for example, where the characters all have an uppercut and a trio and your matchup knowledge is really just learning the six special moves and how to avoid them.
An oversimplified explanation but I think you can see the point. The question then becomes “what kind of KI do you want?” And I think if they want a healthy online ranked environment there is a “sweet spot” for roster size that is around 12-16. Strive has just launched with 16 characters and while people are lining for their missing favorites there isn’t any real sentiment that the games roster is too small.
I can definitely understand that and it’s always disappointing when there’s no real compromise in situations like that. Considering for me, unless it was a franchise I was really invested in like KI or Street Fighter, I would probably only pay like… $15 bucks for a 12 character fighter. Maybe $20 if I really like what I see. I also have this weird thing with my brain that lets me memorize just… a lot of different details about characters. It’s why, even in the few instances I do go online, I tend to jump around from character to character. Like…. In any fighting game I tend to “main” over half of the entire lineup and try to get proficient with all of them to some degree. Not trying to brag, just saying some more of the weird mental quirks I have that contribute to this.
But yeah. It’s disappointing that for one of us to get what we want the other has to go without and there’s no real way to compromise.
It’s just life. People like different things and that’s okay. The good news is it’s not up to either of us to decide so we don’t need to compromise. If (and it’s still a big if) a new KI is made then the development team will decide how many characters it has and you and I will decide if we want to buy it. If it makes you feel any better I suspect they will feel a financial motivation to release more characters.
Yeah I can see both sides clearly, and understand each viewpoint. I play KI Classic Online every day for sometimes hours a day. mostly just Online in Competitive mode. I’ve played it since it came out in the 90’s, and STILL find out new combos and tweaks and tactics. I’d just hate for all of that to be lost in transition. I can see the benefits and disadvantages of having more or less characters. That debate might be tale as old as time though. If you made a game that pleased everyone, someone would still complain just to feel like a rebel. You all have brought new insight into my argument that I didn’t originally consider, and I will have to walk back my idea and offer a better explanation and ways to implement it. Basically I just want the option to choose what button combinations do what moves, I think that’s what it all boils down to. The option of charging back, forward+ kick to do a flik flack, or the QCB + kick to do it. Also, to be able to choose between different auto double animations. Maybe a create a character mode that handles all of this. I mean… hand crafted combos? That would be nice. So that way, I can make classic combos, with the same button combinations I’m used to. There’s an idea. That way if you’d prefer 2013 inputs and animations, you can have it, and the same with classic. Or even Gold or whatever. Did I convey that in a mentally digestible manner?
How about in create a character, you get to choose what inputs and animations your character does, from a list of all of their animations from classic to 2013?
I mean. They clearly want to based on that interview. They just don’t have a team to do it yet. So at least it’s on their mind and they aren’t just forgetting about it. Maybe when Iron Galaxy finishes… whatever they’re currently working on.
I try to be a positive person. I know I may not always come across that way on here, but generally I don’t believe in spreading negativity on the internet. There’s too much of that already.
But I think people are being selectively gullible when it comes to Phil Spencer’s comments on KI. Just imagine for a moment, what would Phil have said if they had zero interest in bringing back KI and we’re not pursuing it and we’re not going to pursue it. Would he have said that? No. His job is to say “oh yeah we’d love to do that. We aren’t doing it now, but if the right studio becomes available we would be really interested.” Which is exactly what he said. Everyone is interpreting it as sincerity because we all WANT to think MS is excited to bring the game back.
So maybe he is sincere and maybe he isn’t. But all we know for sure is that they are not working on a KI sequel in any way shape or form right now - not even in the early planning stages. The last KI started in 2013, ended in 2017. Four years and a whole console launch later, after acquiring what, a dozen studios? And they are not working on it. That doesn’t sound like they “really want to” to me. To me that sounds like “I don’t want to say anything to enrage the fans but I won’t downright lie and say we are working on it.”
Idk. I don’t really want to read things into words when they aren’t there. Imo the safe thing to do is take their words at face value because then you start making conspiracy theories.
I’d LOVE that! That would be awesome!
I think KI4 should be an amalgamation of the best mechanics from KI1 and KI2013 (to an extent KI2 but I’m biased towards KI1 SNES/2013 mechanics with KI1 arcade aesthetics).
KI2013 really suped up the identities between universal mechanics (auto-doubles, linkers, manuals, etc.) and unique character exclusive properties (airdashing, command grabs, etc.) because everyone in 1 was a hybrid charge/motion input character with projectiles except for TJ and Jago. The only qualm that I had with 2013 years back (and still do) is that heavy linkers are executed by holding light or medium buttons after inputting the motion. In KI4 I hope they change that to pressing HP or HK and instead complete an ender by motion+holding HP/HK instead. That would solve two things. It would make execution of the universal mechanics easier for beginners because they’d have to only hold a button once ever in a combo and the game itself would follow it’s own rule more than tackle its exception to it.
As far as roster amounts go, I think a large established cast with many newcomers is a good way to go about future KI games. Think of how lacking the KI side of a crossover game would be without a legacy of KI characters!
One more thing. CREATE-AN-ULTRA mode. Like the create-a-trick editor in Tony Hawk’s Underground but you have access to all of a character’s normals and specials. There should be a hit and time cap to make sure troublemakers don’t prolong a match indefinitely but other than that, the player can go nuts.