KI should never have been an EXCLUSIVE< TErrible business decision by Microsoft

Yeah, I think they had some fantastic ideas and I agree, I’d rather see them reach as high as they can, even if it might hurt the final result a bit. I mean, the final results, when everything’s working properly, were great. But it appears as though maintenance is going to be an issue going forward, sadly.

I think that there is a small percentage of people that didn’t quite get the memo that KI is back or what KI is or why it matters / why it’s good, etc. Even among fighting game fans, games can be easy to ignore, especially if they’re generating a metric ton of buzz.

However, I don’t personally conflate “being in your face” with “buzz.” KI, to me, grew slowly over time, and I don’t really think that TV commercials, banner ads all over gaming sites etc were going to change that much. I mean, they made seasons of the game FREE multiple times, so if you own an Xbox, there’s really only a small percentage of people that missed the game when it was available, haven’t heard of it, but definitely would’ve purchased it if they’d known about it. At least in my opinion.

I don’t know if it’s planning or shifting priorities or simply unexpected issues. The fact that IG is done with the game and MS is left to fix their code (not sure how much either side worked on the actual code for the game) tells me that while the contract model for these seasons was a compelling new experiment that they were trying out and constantly iterating on, it’s at least possible that the end game might’ve been a bit more vague or undefined than was anticipated early on.

Plus, and I could be wrong here, but MS DOES have a slight reputation for dropping things and moving on, whether fair or not. They’ve done it with two video game systems so far. They’ve done it with countless potential franchise IPs. Maybe I’m just used to how Sony and Nintendo do things, but they both seem to have a bit less of a graveyard of one-off or two-off successful titles that never get sequels or turned in to the full fledged franchises they deserve.

This is actually kinda what I was worried about with KI from the beginning. If we didn’t know the endgame and how long this game would go on, then how many seasons would we get? How many characters? What happens when it’s done? Well, to be fair to MS, they delivered on this game, no question. A great roster, great gameplay, tons of arenas, modes, etc. I have ZERO complaints there.

But even still, when it was over, it was over. Now that the game needs more maintenance, we’re finding that this likely isn’t the cut and dry exit that MS might be used to, and it seems to be causing problems. Now, I’m speculating here, and I almost certainly shouldn’t. I know that James has been engaging with fans on several issues with the game, so it’s not like were getting no response at all.

I just wonder how many people he has working with him to fix some of the issues going on with the game. I hope he (and his team) can get this stuff corrected, as it’d be a shame to have a game that was this well made “end” with a sour taste in people’s mouths.

Damnit, I feel like I agree with you all the time. Stop making sense to me lol. :joy:

But yes, I feel this way too. I like Phil. I like how he interfaces with fans, I like the way he talks about Xbox and he seems genuinely excited and passionate about games and about doing the best job possible for Xbox owners. I love the backward compatibility initiatives and I think they’ve been executed to perfection thus far. Also, if it wasn’t obvious, I have nothing against the guy whatsoever.

I thought he did a great job of coming in after the Mattrick era’s unceremonious end, undoing many of the more unpopular decisions and working overtime to rehab Microsoft’s image in the gaming community, even if we probably knew back then that Sony was going to take this generation in terms of sales, and by a considerable margin.

But while all of that is great, and while we may never know all the things he’s doing behind the scenes and why, all we as fans have to go on are results, and in this regard, I think we can fairly judge him and the job that’s been done to this point.

While I’d say the first few years of Xbox One went really well, the last two or so years have been extremely weak in comparison to Sony and Nintendo and pretty weak overall from an exclusive content standpoint, and really, that’s why I own an Xbox. I also have a PS4, so while I like the Xbox controller, XBL and their overall ecosystem (which again, great job on, for sure), I feel like I’d be missing next to nothing if I only owned a PS4.

Here’s just a glance, a comparison between the retail releases of 2017 for Sony and MS:

Sony:

Gravity Rush 2
Tales of Berseria
Yakuza 0
Nioh
Horizon Zero Dawn
Nier: Automata
Hatsune Miku
Dragons Dogma: Dark Arisen
Knack 2
Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
MLB: The Show 17
Hellblade (coming to XB1 in 2018)
Uncharted: Lost Legacy
Crash Bandicoot: N Sane Trilogy (coming to XB1 in 2018)
Gran Tourismo Sport
Dragon Quest XI

Compare this to Xbox One
Player Unknown’s Battlegrounds (beta)
Forza Motorsport 7
Halo Wars 2
Voodoo Vince Remastered
Super Lucky’s Tale
Cuphead (wasn’t retail, but still a major release for MS last year)

Here’s what Sony’s done so far in 2018:

God of War
Ni No Kuni 2
Dissidia Final Fantasy NT
Yakuza 6
Lost Sphere
Dragon’s Crown Pro
Detroit: Become Human
BlazBlue: Cross Tag Battle

And on Xbox One:
Sea of Thieves
State of Decay 2


So, that’s roughly a year and a half, and while I know that’s not a huge sample size overall, it still feels like a long time when you’re an Xbox owner and you’re waiting for something great to play on your system. I mean, I hate to say it, but I should also point out that most of those Xbox One games that are listed didn’t review particularly well.

State of Decay 2 was knocked for being a buggy mess, Sea of Thieves got the “it could be really good… someday” tag, PUBG got rather lackluster reviews for all the bugginess it had, and while Forza 7 reviewed relatively well, I don’t think it’s scores were as high as in years past and a few of the reviews I read made note of some slight “series fatigue.”

So you have a lot of sixes and sevens, maybe an 8 or two, going up against more titles, many of which are 8 and 9 caliber on Sony’s end, with a few possible 10’s in there with God of War and Horizon: Zero Dawn. Has Xbox One had a single game come out on the system thus far that most in the industry would categorize as a masterpiece, 10/10 caliber game?

I don’t mean to sound angry, I’m not. I also don’t take any enjoyment in pointing stuff like this out and I definitely hate ripping on people that work hard to make our entertainment happen. I’m sure people at MS do the best they can, so I honestly feel like a jerk for even posting this stuff.

But with Crackdown 3 apparently struggling in development (if rumors are to be believed), some Japanese developers seemingly shying away from the system a lot more now, and not a whole heck of a lot else on the horizon that we know about yet, the last year and half combined with a somewhat bleak outlook for the future, at least at the moment, make kinda sad for my fellow Xbox owners.

It also makes me think that, as much as Phil talks a good game and puts on a great E3 conference, does well in interviews, etc, the results are a bit too far away from expectations. I feel like I’ve been standing at the station, waiting for the hype train to arrive for this system; the second wave of titles that should’ve come after the first few years where we had awesome stuff like Killer Instinct, Dead Rising 3, Ori and the Blind Forest, Sunset Overdrive, Forza Horizon 2, Halo 5 and Rise of the Tomb Raider (for a year).

I’d hoped that last E3 would’ve brought that wave, but it was mainly XB1X’s show, with some other stuff here and there, plus a bunch of multiplats like Assassins Creed Origins and what not. I’m really hoping that this year is the year that everything falls in to place; that whatever’s been in development during this long dry time is finally ready to be shown and that it’s all coming later this year.

I’ve heard rumors of a new Perfect Dark, a new Fable, and it wouldn’t shock me if they were bringing back another game from the past. I believe Phil said that they’d be showing an exclusive JRPG at E3 this year, and while Sony poops those out every other month it seems (okay, slight exaggeration lol), I’d still do a backflip and land awkwardly on my neck if they announced Lost Odyssey 2. I’m also sure Forza Horizon 4, Halo 6 and maybe even Gears 5 will be at E3 this year.

So I suppose there’s reason for hope, at least in theory. But like you, I WANT to be happy with MS. I like a lot of their franchises, and Killer Instinct in particular both made me a happy Xbox owner in the first few years, but has also sustained my appreciation for this system in its leaner years.

I just hope that MS and Phil can finally deliver the goods and usher us out of this desert, because if this year’s E3 conference looks anything like last year’s, I’m seriously going to start debating whether it’s time to sell my system and get a Switch, which I never in a million years would’ve thought of doing. But KI’s about 90% of the reason why it’s still plugged in, and a game from 2013 shouldn’t have to shoulder that kind of burden.

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Sorry to double post, but that previous post is long enough, so I figured I’d divide things up a bit.

It’s crazy to think that they once had Bungie, Lionhead, Bioware, FromSoftware, Mistwalker, Bizarre Creations and Remedy as either first or second party studios. I mean, I get it. If a developer wants their freedom, it’s not like you’re going to say “no, you must stay” since the devs could just as easily quit and go form a new studio and then what do you have? A name, and not much else. Well, not that they could order a 2nd party studio to stay either way.

But still, MS does have some talent, for sure. 343 does a good job with Halo, Mojang brings in a ton of money with Minecraft, The Coalition does a great job with Gears and I believe they’re staffing up for another game. Turn 10 has also done a great job with Forza Motorsport and Rare still gives them a substantial library of games and just launched Sea of Thieves not too long ago.

But part of me, the greedier part, wonders how great it’d be if MS had all of these studios at once. Bungie making Destiny, 343 making Halo, Bioware making Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Anthem, and maybe a sequel to Jade Empire, From Software working with MS instead of Sony on Bloodborne, Lionhead putting out a new Fable title…


Anyways, here’s what I’d like to see MS do:

  1. Purchase Playground games. Forza Horizon is arguably your A #1 racing game right now, so it only makes sense that they should be in the fold.

  2. Let Turn 10 expand and work on other titles. Rumor has it they’re the ones working on a new Fable, so maybe let them alternate between Fable and Forza Motorsport.

  3. Purchase Moon Studios. Ori is a great franchise, and MS should keep having these people work on it.

  4. Purchase Sumo Digital. Sure, they’re working primarily on Crackdown 3 right now, but I’d also try and get them working on an MS kart racer, as they did a fantastic job with the Sega All Stars Racing games. Perhaps they could alternate these two series for a while?

  5. Purchase Iron Galaxy. Not just to keep them developing Killer Instinct, but this studio seems to be staffing up and expanding more and more. If you can get them working on Killer Instinct as well as developing more new franchises, perhaps even having them try their hand at bringing back Kakuto Chojin or Tao Feng, or working on bringing back some other franchises, I think MS could really make use of their talents.

  6. Purchase a major publisher with a substantial library of games. Yes, MS has a lot of great series that I’d love to see return, but they seem content on moving forward. If that’s the case, and they’re going to leave Crimson Skies, MechAssault, Rallisport, Lost Odyssey, etc in the dust, then they need to rapidly expand their portfolio of exclusives, because a new IP one off here and there won’t cut it.

MS was rumored to be looking in to Electronic Arts, Capcom or Valve for a while, and while I’m sure those rumors were bogus, it’s not as though MS is entirely averse to bringing in a substantial publisher like Rare or shelling out for a studio with a huge IP like Mojang.

In the price range of EA would likely be Activision Blizard or Bandai Namco. In the price range of Capcom are Sega, Devolver Digital, Konami, and WB Interactive. Other names I’d add to that list are Deep Silver and Ubisoft.

Obviously, they’d have to be open to being purchased, as Vivendi found out with Ubisoft, it’s not as simple as buying shares. But I’d have to think that at least one of these companies would be open to either a purchase due to financial hardship (Capcom or Sega?) or simply selling a library it no longer utilizes (Konami?).

Either way, something like this would make a splash, but it would also give them a whole new stable of exclusives to get fans excited about them again. Obviously, doing all six steps would cost a ton, but MS is in a position right now where, compared to Sony and all of their first / second party studios and their many ties with Japanese developers and publishers, MS is at the point where they’re almost restarting from square one.

They still have a few big franchises, but the one-off deals don’ts seem to be working as well this generation, and the support structure games, the tentpole franchises, are really starting to show their age.

To be fair to MS, I think they were making a considerable effort rebuild the IPs under their brand in the earlier years of the XB1, but we saw how that worked out after all the cancellations, studio closures, and exclusives like Sunset Overdrive performing poorly. I’m not saying all of this was entirely MS’s fault, but I do think it shows that they’re in critical need of an improved approach to how they select, manage, and support their partners and properties. Heck, even their relatively successful stuff shows the same problems with marketing and support.

I like some of those ideas you mention. In particular I’d be interested to see a reboot of Fable. I think that series has a lot of potential in the hands of a more focused and well-managed developer than Lionhead was.

Lol. I’ll try!

Your release list misses a few things, like Dragons Dogma coming to Xbox One, but I wouldn’t quibble over the details because your point is sound. For the first couple of years of this generation I think MS’s exclusive software has a strong case to be better. But for the last couple of years it’s been pretty grim. Cuphead is amazing and both Forza 7 and Forza Horizon are amazing games. But as you say those are iterative. Forza 7 is a great showpiece for Xbox One X (and arguably about the only one). The Horizon series is incredible and I actually didn’t think I would like it. But they don’t sell very well.

One of my worries is that Xbox division is doing fine in the eyes of an accountant. Unfortunately the brand is suffering. It’s become clear just how important Fable Legends and Scalebound were in the overall portfolio and while they might have been financially sound decisions to kill those games it means Cuphead is the only new Xbox IP worth a darn in the last two years. Yikes.

Anyway, we are flogging the issue. The point is this is a really important E3 if MS is going to be relevant again in the gaming space and I don’t see much in the way of indication that they are. I really hope to be wrong.

Since you’re bringing this up I might as well raise the question as to why Microsoft never just bought Double Helix instead of letting Amazon have them especially since they were already under contract. Obviously we have no idea the inner workings between them or what the exact situation was but from my perspective I guess keeping them just to work on KI wasn’t a good investment though it would of been a heck of a lot better than trying to find another new developer to work on the game and pray they would keep the same structure and quality as before.

Yesterday I watched the Archive of @Sajam’s stream and I glimpsed at a moment in the chat where Keits mentions to a user that he hand’t been working on KI for over a year at this point when asked a question about a new KI, so it’s pretty clear MS and IG contract has been expired for some time.

Being the speculative person I am though, I do wonder what is going on with DH right now as their latest project they worked on for almost 3 years suddenly got canceled (Breakway) which makes me believe they might secretly be working with MS again on a new KI. Just wishful nonsensical thinking of course but you never know.

MS has not been in the business of acquiring studios in a long time. They may or may not have even known that DH was being acquired so who knows?

As far as their current I don’t know anything about it except that they are still owned by Amazon Studios so they are definitely not working with MS. But I don’t if the group that worked in KI is silk intact or if people have left or what. I wish them all well.

Edit: gosh, sorry about all the typos. I’m living on my phone right now.

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Just speaking on what Microsoft plans to do. I have a friend who alpha tests for Microsoft. He also is a district manager for gamestop and he gets sent to things like pax and e3 and sees things the General public doesn’t. He told me that Microsoft does have a lot to reveal this year at e3 and other shows. He also informed me that Microsoft isn’t done with ki. Though he did state he’s not sure when a new one will come. Whether it’s a new ki or not here’s hoping they deliver. Because while they have the exclusives I think the ps4 is a worse system than the xbo or the switch.

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More KI lcdGasm-28px

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ITS ALL ON SONY, THEY WANNA BE ■■■■■ ABOUT EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS… I think Sony is the problem… you eliminate problems… they’re.like a bunch of rats, need to get an exterminator in here

I have a friend that ditched sony because of ki

AMAZING POST!! SHARE THIS A LOT!!

I really hope so. Not that I’m super into PS’ exclusives, but since Xbox has been my primary platform, I’d like to see them create a good library of exclusives especially considering the investment in the X1X.

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wishful thinking but do you think we might get a new KI reveal?

Let’s say the rumored Nintendo/MS collaboration on some games is true. We already got Minecraft on Switch with cross play and Gamertags

So here’s what’s gonna happen at E3:

KI is coming to Switch. With full crossplay. It used to be a Nintendo game. So why the hell not?

Also: KI 2 is coming too. On Xbox, PC and switch.

Mic drop.

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Its obviously a terrible mistake on the part of Microsoft executives, But they can still correct it and make KI available everywhere, if KI infiltrates PS4 , it will rival SF and co or even surpass them. KI is too big to be supressed as an xbox exclusive which the world doesnt know.except america Its a pity MS executives cannot get simple decisions like this right.