Jago vs Ryu

General Discussion
1

Before I get started, I know that there is already a post of this - but as a huge fan of both, I really wanted to dive into this match-up and see who, out of the two will win.

Now, to fully breakdown every aspect of this match-up there needs to some boundaries and specific things to look for before coming to a conclusion.

Just to be clear, there are no Combo Breakers/Counter Breakers in this match-up, I know that it is a valuable part of KI but to place both characters in a fair environment, we must subtract most game dynamics and focus on character specific moves. This also means Ryu will not be able to use his parries. Focus Attacks, Shadow Counters, Ex Moves, Shadow Moves, Instinct, and Super Specials and Ultra’s (SF) are game. Also, because Jago’s moves are based on combos and if Ryu is unable to break than Jago will win regardless of tech. To balance this we will lock Jago at level 2-3 enders only (heavy for level 2 and medium for level 3, shadow moves do negate this rule).

We are looking for both characters at their full potential, Ryu will follow his USF4 model as Jago will follow his Season 2 model.

Consider the following factors to help you come to a conclusion of who will be crowned victorious.

  • Strength, what is the highest damage possible and overall average damage?
  • Versatility, how well is the character able to utilize their tech?
  • Experience, how much training each fighter had prior to this fight? We will assume based on story and physique that Ryu is in his mid-late 30’s (34-36) while Jago is 30.
  • Endurance, how well the character is able to withstand damage?
  • Discipline, can the character focus their tech and use it as an advantage to comeback from being knocked back? Example: Jago’s health gain or Ryu’s Ultra.
  • Will, does the character posses the heart to see the well-hidden faults in their opponent and use it as an advantage to win without ever losing sight of their own potential?

One final thing before you vote, here are some reference videos to guide your decision…

RYU

JAGO
XboxClips | Thompxson playing Killer Instinct

[poll]

  • Jago
  • Ryu
  • Draw
    [/poll]
1 Like
2

Jago

Personally, both characters are incredible fighters and possess enough tech to overcome the greatest of adversity. I cannot say that the match will come to a draw because regardless of the match-up factors, one will triumph by a slight edge. I am giving this edge to Jago because of his instinct and ability to gain health back while doing damage and setting up a damage cash-out.

  • Strength - Jago, his shadow Tiger Fury deals massive damage and can be followed up by a juggle to cash out maximum damage.
  • Versatility - Jago, both characters possess the required tools to continue a fight but ultimately, Jago’s ability to pass through Ryu’s zoning game and continuously add pressure makes him truly capable.
  • Experience - Ryu, he has traveled the world and faced the greatest of opponents including Bison and Akuma.
  • Endurance - Jago, he and Ryu are well balanced and although Ryu is known to comeback from the toughest of beatings, Jago’s health regeneration keeps him from falling short.
  • Discipline - Ryu, this one was tough because both have inner evils constantly trying to take control. However, unlike Ryu, Jago cannot channel his inner evil into his advantage. Ryu can undergo the power of “nothingness” whereas he focuses all his energy to his attacks.
  • Will - Ryu, while Jago can use his iron discipline to know his potential, Ryu has always proved to use his determination to defeat some of the strongest foes.
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3

Because the editing tool is broken in the original post, I found a better video for Ryu. The last one I posted did not do a well enough job at showcasing Ryu’s ability, so here you are.

4

Close quarters…

Up close imo Jago vs. Ryu would be a wash. Both are footsie kings, and both have options to blow up errant moves.

Mid range…

Jago clearly has the advantage. As you can see in the Diago video, Ryu ALWAYS wants to get into sweep range as that is where he gets his damage. Jago, w/ his sword, already has an advantage as he can be further away (you can see an example of this in the Thompxson video when he was doing those resets), and on top of that Jago can use his shadow meter to blow up whiffs from an even greater distance, on top of blowing up fireballs.

“Full screen”…

A wash between them. Both need to be in closer to get any real damage.

…

Strength - Damage goes to Jago. Even with limiting enders and such, Jago would still out damage Ryu by quite a lot taking.

Ryu gets most of his damage off single hits (which Jago can match), but when using most/all of his resources (including Ultra), Ryu can reach something like 50%. Jago on the other hand when using full resources outputs something like 75% (and I think that is without instinct), but being capped as he is in this fight he’d be at like 40% (or something). On top of the clear pre-cap damage gap, and Jago should have many more opportunities to be able to dish out that damage looking at his advantages in the mid range.

Versatility - I was going to say Jago, but I forgot about Ryu’s Red Focus. With FADCs and Red / Focus attacks I’d say they are pretty even in there versatility.

Experience - I’m leaning towards Ryu having more experience here seeing as he’s been wandering the world fighting for some time. Jago seemed to get a late start when it comes to going out and fighting, and even though he seems / is pretty strong, he just doesn’t have the same quantity of battles under his belt.

Endurance - Jago wins this just on the fact that he can heal. Both can take a punch, but only one can regen mid fight.

Discipline - IMO Jago’s health regain is more useful than either of Ryu’s ultras.

In a good fight, Jago would essentially be able to go bullet time for a split second on 2 different occasions (maybe 3), on top of being able to do more damage off top, and also having the ability to gain at least 50% more health than Ryu. Another thing to look at is the fact that Ryu’s Metsu Hadouken Ultra, other than damage, is also his only way to negate fireballs in sweep range other than reading the attack and jumping over. So while Ryu’s ultra would being pulling him closer to Jago in some respects, Jago’s instinct allows Jago to pull away from Ryu in terms of abilities. In combat though, both characters would have the discipline to use there abilities to the best of their ability, but I think Ryu’s Ultra’s are less versatile, and thus less useful in general, when in comparison to Jago’s Instinct.

Will - I think this goes to Jago.

The one parallel I can draw between these 2 are their inner struggles with dark power: Ryu and the Satsui No Hado, and Jago with the “Tiger Spirit.” The one reason I give this to Jago is the fact that he “over came” Gargos’ power and somewhat purged himself, while Ryu couldn’t contain the Dark Hado, and thus needed Gouken to seal it for him.

Ryu’s will to win is great, and is partially why he was able to manifest the Dark Hado within himself, but I think Jago’s ability to fight against the evil influence that possessed him, and his ability to purge himself of it, shows that he has a at least a greater will to be pure.

…

So in conclusion, Jago should win due to longer ranged normals, more versatile specials, his Instinct, and his sheer damage. Ryu would hold his own no doubt, and in cqc / footsie range even gain the advantage at times due to his greater degree of combat experience. But in various other areas in comparison to Jago, he is just far behind in terms of options, and lacks the sufficient tools to deal with him, or match him, after landing an attack.

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5

Ryu destroys Jago (canon wise in certain situations)

Jago has lost to Evil Aganos, Cinder, Riptor and Fulgore Mk3

Ryu has only lost to M.Bison, Oro and ken (in a sparring fight) and these guys are amongst the strongest SF characters

Also Evil Ryu > Shadow Jago the Shun goku satsu would kill him in a second
and power of nothingness Ryu is even stronger

Jago and normal Ryu is about equal but Ryu has lost less

6

Saying Ryu would win because he lost less doesn’t make sense since they fought different opponents.

7

I dunno about all this stuff but character design wise Jago wins hand down. Ryu is so boring compared to Jago!

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Hands-down Jago

9

He also lost to rose mr

10

I agree jago has the edge.

Hes an effective zone with shadows that pass though zoning. Hes anti air and of course combo heavy. His normals are better and hes trained with a sword. He has the ability to regain energy. All round hes more versatile.

We dont know thst jago purges himself yet… i was under the impression that shadow jago fed on so much death that he became an omen rather than just a possession. He didnt purge him he allowed him to grow strong enough to be free.

Ryu on the other hand does deal with his dark side more effectively. He grasps the light shown to him by rose and becomes even stronger (marvel vs capcom 3)

Its a close one very close.

11

Jago has a sword.

drops mike; walks away

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Man, this thread…

It’s a no-brainer, really: the typical KI character has access to offensive dirt that would completely throw out the balance of a SF game, without losing out in other areas to compensate. You couldn’t give Ryu a wind kick. Jago also frame traps for longer and more effectively, and his overhead is disgusting. If Jago showed up in SFIV, you’d have to rework his combat design in very fundamental ways, or he’d have to have less health than Akuma.

13

TL;DR - you are wrong.

Ryu has lost to a lot of characters. Looking at the comic, he lost the rematch with Sagat, he lost to Cody, Ken, Rose, and also a few others. In the game canon though, it isn’t clear exactly who he’s beaten because the canon isn’t clear.

In SF1 it was said that Ryu was beaten by Sagat, and when the fight was over, after Ryu was down, Sagat went over to help him up and Ryu unleashed a surprise attack. After Ryu lost to Sagat, that is when his desire for victory took over and he succumbed to the Satsui No Hado. The Dark Hado made him almost kill Sagat in athatsurprise attack, and after that “victory” is when Ryu’s struggle with the Dark Hado began. In the years after than battle, his struggle cost him a bout with Ken (SFA2) and yeah, Akuma beat him at this point too (SFA2) but Akuma would have won anyway; Sagat decided not to fight him a second time because Ryu seemed afflicted (SFA3); but after that Ryu did defeat Bison after Chun and Charlie destroyed his psycho-drive (SFA3). In SF2 it was said that Ryu defeated just about everyone except Bison (in his new body) and Akuma (again), though there was no mention of the Satsui No Hado, and that is then we get to SF4.

In SF4 we don’t know how things when down, but we do know he was still afflicted with the Dark Hado, and that it is here that he begins to realize he can use the power of nothingness as well (keep in mind that Ryu CANNOT control either the Dark Hado or the power of Nothingness at will). SFV and SF3 IMO shouldn’t even be taken into account due to there stories not being know/resolved respectively, but you are right that Ryu would have lost to Oro, and may have won his rematch with Ken during that time.

So as you can see in the game canon, Ryu is indeed a strong opponent, having ran through much of the competition in SF2, but prior to that, and even after that, he was loosing fights and/or running even with most everyone. Taking the comics into consideration as well, most of which happening during the SFA timeline, Ryu has lost many times throughout his travels in the world.

Looking at Jago though, and lets start in season 1, just look at the fact that his entire purpose was to find an opponent who could defeat him and purge him of his corruption…he never found that opponent. It would seem that Jago defeated all comers just as Ryu did in SF2, probably worse though, and that through combat the corruption, Omen, had become stronger, to the point where he fought for control of Jago’ body…hence Shadow Jago. The only “person” who defeated Shadow Jago was Jago, and as such, Omen proper was born.

Season 2 Jago though, was different…weakened by his battle with Omen…and the fight with Riptor and her pack was clear evidence of that…

Altered.PNG1108Ă—622 1.3 MB

Jago was different after he purged Omen, and was struggling with regaining his strength (it would seem). Still though, even Aria knew that Jago was potentially the strongest of the Earth’s fighters…

Strongest.PNG1104Ă—622 1.42 MB

And Jago’s loss to Aganos also shouldn’t be held against him here in this thread imo. Aganos is canonically one of the strongest characters in KI as he rivals Kan-ra in power straight up. He’s so powerful that Kan-ra had to trick him to gain the upper hand to defeat him. After Cinder took control of Aganos in his weakened state and turned him to their side, Aria pretty much automatically put him at the top of the list saying that he was one of the strongest UItra-tech soldiers…

stongest2.PNG1141Ă—646 1.42 MB

Bottom line is that Ryu has never faced anything like a pack of Riptors, or a character as resilient as Aganos for that matter. Sure Akuma and Oro are VERY powerful characters, whom he cannot defeat, but yeah, I’d say if you put Ryu in the same circumstance that Jago was in, that Ryu would loose too.

About Jago loosing to Cinder and Fulgore, it would seem that you are talking about Jago “loosing” when Maya’s temple was raided by UT forces. That wasn’t Jago loosing, that was Jago and the other good guys surviving UT’s onslaught. Jago apparently went up against multiple MKII Fulgores, and may have fought Cinder too. At the end of the day though, Jago didn’t die, he survived the massive battle that occurred there.

Finally, you think the Satsui No Hado is more powerful than the power of Gargos? Why?

14

Vega has a claw and both Ryu and Ken have beaten him…
And his base form was tied with C.Viper who has megaton punches, flame kicks and electric knuckles
Also bullets bounce off evil ryu what good would a sword do???

Do your research before you give me such a tripe answer

15

Yeah…uh #NONCANON! and if you did take them into account then evil ryu was on parr with oni in one and are you going to tell me with a straight face that Jago is stronger than Oni

Its fairly clear that he lost to Bison, Oro and Ken

I never said anything about Gargos at all so don’t know what you are on about? Also Oni is maxed out Satsui no Hado…Oni is like god level

Power of nothingness Ryu > Regular Akuma

No Omen didn’t need jago anymore so he left his body cause he was strong enough…Shadow jago lost to jago what tosh (they are the same guy)

SF3 was resolved by Gill being defeated by Alex who Ryu beat who lost to Oro

I am not saying Jago is bad but even in the KI classic story he was weaker than a Mk2 Fulgore (since when orchid does’t help him he dies) and Base Jago would probsbeat Ryu but if Ryu goes all out power of nothingness he would win

I prefer Jago as a character over Ryu but Ryu has more going for him (probs because he comes from an older and more developed franchise)

16

I know the comics are non-canon, which is why I went in such detail with the games. Yes Ryu lost to Akuma, Ken, and Oro, but he also lost to Sagat in SFA3, and a few other characters in SF4. Honestly that is why I said it isn’t really clear who he’s lost to. You mentioned 3 characters, I added at least 2 more, and those battles span 4 proper games, and the Alpha Series. There have been many events, but so little results. Hell, we barely know who he’s beaten.

Omen is Gargos’ power. You must know this.

And though Shadow Jago and regular Jago share the same body, they are not the same guy per say. You wouldn’t say Evil Ryu and Ryu are the same guy would you? Evil Ryu is Ryu possessed / out of control. Sure the characters share the same vessel, but they fight differently, using almost completely different styles. Bottom line is that Evil Ryu and Shadow Jago are corrupted beings, bodies possessed by “alien” hosts.

FYI: The force that is the Satsui No hado as it is portrayed in SF is just like the force that is Gargos’ power. That is why I pit the 2 powers against each other.

[quote=“VagabondGunmen, post:15, topic:1920”]
SF3 was resolved by Gill being defeated by Alex who Ryu beat who lost to Oro[/quote]

You can’t really say that, because Capcom could change the endings of SF3 with the intro of the game that follows SF3 in the timeline. In FGs the endings are all speculation until the next game corroborates them, as you can’t have two conflicting endings be canon.

As an example in the context of SF, just look at SF Alpha 1. Alpha 2 pretty much erased that game’s story for whatever reason, so as a rule of thumb you shouldn’t take any game’s ending as true until the dust settles.

Look at Mortal Kombat’s story as well for good examples for why.

Ryu can’t control the Nothingness, it is sort of just like how he sometimes gets taken over by the Dark Hado. Ryu is a very good fighter no doubt, but he is still a “pup” when it comes to these things…that was said by Akuma, Gouken, and Oro. He is still striving to master his chi, which is why he hasn’t gone to the next level. Jago is further along on that path, but he is still striving to master the “Tiger Spirit” himself.

On some levels I agree with you, but then I realize that SF is almost 25 years old, and Ryu still hasn’t developed into a master, and he’s just about exactly where he was in SF1. He gained a little head way towards the end of Alpha 3, but then SF4 regressed him a bit back to SF1 territory if you ask me. I’m hoping SFV will do big things in the story department as far as furthering things along, but we’ll just have to wait and see. Seriously though, Jago isn’t that far behind him in the overall character development field. Officially I think we know about the same amount of info for both.

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I think the KI world is a lot more brutal/powerful than the SF world. Overall it seems like the SF world is a bit more realistic minus DP’s and such but they do have trouble tearing a car apart in the bonus stages and I think KI characters would be able to destroy them in a punch or two.

The games description is literally “Superhuman fight pit” so am guessing every single KI character has higher strength/endurance than a top tier human. Peak Arnold Scwarzenegger is just the lowest any KI character is. Would explain how KI characters can endure shot gun blasts to the face from Aria. and why Orchid doesn’t have full body armor. Am guessing only high piercing rounds can actually cut through KI character skins.

Seeing as how TJ was world champ his enemies/fellow fighters in the ring were probably super human too and near his level. The world of KI must contain some Superhumans that sometimes join competitive sports. It would be interesting to see more of the opponents TJ had to fight in the ring. Am guessing it would be like Ultimate Muscle. A whole bunch of crazy fights in the ring.

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18

Hmm, good analysis about the realistic aspects of both worlds.

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19

Ryu destroys Jago to my knowledge as Ryu has more feats and scales from much more impressive characters to knowedge as well.

Ryu goes toe to toe with restricted base form Akuma: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iJJJkTLTMuU (2:47)

Ryu himself like most most SF characters are fast enough to dodge bullets: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30RIXvcoRuw (mind you this was during SF alpha when Thu was still a young adult)

Jago taking on Riptiors are useless as a feat if you haven’t shown what the riptors can do also just cause SF characters struggle to destroy a car doesn’t mean that translates over to actual feats plus its wouldn’t be much of a challenge if the pkayer could destroy the car easily.

20

Why is this flagged?

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